Nolio,

Did you know that no one has been documented of dying from AIDS or HIV either?

Any relationship between the cannabis plant and the tomato is just about the most irrelevant thing I could ever think anyone could say here...

People seem to be making the point a lot that alcohol and tobacco are legal so therefore cannabis should be. Alcohol and tobacco are only legal because they are so widely used so banning them would be virtually impossible. Moves are being made to make smoking tobacco more difficult in the UK, age limit raised to 18 from 16, banned in enclosed public spaces, advertising banned and maybe within 30 or 40 years tobacco will be banned. The fact is if alcohol and tobacco were new onto the streets tomorrow (with their health effects known) they would almost certainly be illegal, so the argument that pot should be legal because alcohol and tobacco are isn't really valid. Alcohol and tobacco are legal because they are so ingrained in society that a ban would be unworkable.

In my eyes the best argument for legalising cannabis would just be to stop wasting police time ticking off smelly teenagers with long hair when they could be doing something more useful.

"Nobody in the history of time has been documented of dying from smoking marijuana."

Right, they get shot arguing over marijuana long before that.

when the time comes I will post this thing up so hard I will shove your libertarian head up your libertarian arse on this Kemp X(

When in doubt, error on the side of personal freedom.

You have no right to interfere in the actions of men whose actions have 0 impact on you.

As it stands, more harmful substances are legal while this one is not. You cannot justify this. Everyone who tries lies in trying to do so.

I'm not encouraging the use of it, Einstein. I am, however, defending a person's right to do whatever the hell he or she wants. Cannabis grows all over the globe. Jews burned it as incense during the time of Christ.

Nobody here has justified its outlaw.

"
You have no right to interfere in the actions of men whose actions have 0 impact on you."

people have impace on one another. there probably isnt a man in the country who wouldnt be able to have an impact on me in some way or shape.

"When in doubt, error on the side of personal freedom."

addictions whether physical or psychological, are governments and infringe on personal freedom.

I don't buy the line that addictions "infringe" on personal freedom. I wouldn't argue that any "hard" drugs should be legalized. I strongly discourage smoking tobacco and urge moderation in consumption of alcohol. The major damage that addictive drugs do to people and, by extension, society is well documented. It is known through science. But marijuana is not such a substance. Grouping it with them without so much as an explanation (and I repeatedly challenge anyone to provide one) only stresses one's ignorance on the plant. There is no more justification in banning marijuana because of psychological addiction than in banning countless other things people become psychologically addicted to. As in those cases, the problem tends to be in the mental health of the addicted person, not in the object of their addiction. Outlawing something because some unhealthy people get addicted to it doesn't help those people. In this case they do it anyway. In any case it doesn't treat their problem. In every case you're infringing upon people's REAL freedom to "protect" (and fail to do so, as described) those with mental disorders from behavior which points to their need for help.

To claim government needs to protect people from a substance that is NOT physically addictive is ridiculous. You left out the part where you explained that a government is a parent and we, the people, have the mental capacity of small children. That's what you're claiming. State it outright; don't leave it implied when your position depends upon it.

> K. William Fancsali wrote:

> It's not physically addictive. People get addicted to porn, video games, sex, good food, good friends, nice cars, jewelry, money, music, and countless other things more harmfully than marijuana.

There only argument that's been given here justifying the outlaw of this plant is "well I feel that it's harmful." If that's your only standard, may God save us all. From you.

Disgusting.

we did not outlaw pot, we dont have to justify banning it. you have to justify legalizing it. thats the change you want, and you havent provided a valid reason why it should be legalized. you just argue it should of never been made illegal; but it was and you cant blame anyone on these forum, that it was, because they had no impact on it being banned.

why should pot be legal? what good will it do to the society?

Weed is nothing more than a herb, reason its illegal is based on taxing, and who makes money off it

~ Cloud

What i "heard" (yes heard or read, i dont know if true or not.. even the internet can not tell me because there simply are too many different storys about it)
is that it was banned to favour the wood economy. because hemp is excellent material for making lots of stuff like e.g. paper. so once.. one powerfull wood lobbysist who had some influence managed to get hemp and all its products be illegal.

I dont know if true or not.. just one theory.

It does not justify the ban of weed though.

I personally am against a ban on weed. I enjoy it too frequentlly and really do not harm anyone else with it.
If my country would be smart it would legalize it. thus would decriminalize lots of innocent people and also could bring some nice ammount of taxes.

Tis time for my post.

Pot is bad, it affects people in many ways most not beneficial, it is a gateway drug, it is a detriment to society.

My proof?

How about my experiences with people using pot, including my own family.

I have seen growing operations with 100+ plants, I have seen so called prescription use pot heads, indeed I have lived with two. I have seen people go from pot to heavier drugs, I have seen this and more.

Lets go over some reasons it is a danger to society. Pot is supposedly a 'non-dangerous' drug. In truth it is dangerous, it slows your ability to react. A man once talked about how his brother was killed due to a driver smoking pot. That killer was the man talking, he used pot and he killed his brother due to slowed reactions.

Then there is this: http://ktracy.com/?p=953

I have seen the effects of pot first hand. I can testify to a fare thee well on this.

The last place I lived in, just prior to this new career, was with a man who had a medical marijuana card, and 10 plants in his basement. Or rather he had 10 plants, they got stolen by someone he showed the plants to.

Anyhow this man suffered the typical conditions. Paranoia, Delusions, anger issues when not on the pot, the gaunt look typical to the hardcore pot addicts, and the total belief he can screw anyone else so long as he does not directly know them, especially businesses.

This man thought he was smart, would try to make inventions, like using a scanner to take pictures of a city area with some modifications to the scanner, and then claiming endlessly how he was going to patent this new and incredible camera once he had the software made to filter the images through. His knowledge of the Government was to the level I would say as infantile. His memory was significantly affected of course, to the effect he forgot he had to go to court once and had a warrant for his arrest because of it.

Others of course broke into his place, stole his pot plants, and stole other materials of random value based upon some weird standards of theirs.

My own biological father was a very hard worker in the forest industry, all under the table. I can say how he suffered delusions about the government, about others, how he had issues for years, and spent all his money almost on beer and pot. He is now a drug councilor and is clean from pot. He will say it is both addictive and dangerous to those who will ask.

There is a reason things that change how our brains work are controlled. Age 21 for alcohol, prescriptions with careful dosages, etc. I would try to slowly restrict alcohol to a limit per person if I could, but that is not the topic.

Pot, in it's basic form, is one of the most complex chemical mixes in the plant world. While it has been 'mapped out' the effects of most of the components is still unknown. Compare this with Opium, which is considered a simple plant to understand. All derivatives of the plant have been fully researched out, with many pain killers resulting, but also several addictive drugs as well. The effects of all of these are well known, well researched, and no forthcoming science will come from this plant any further.

Oh let me skip now to my aunt. She does not care how others in the family are doing when she sends letters to another family member, she does not care about her own child, she cares not about anything except 'can you send me some pot, here is where you can get it'.

But let us continue. You say it calms you down, makes you study better? Makes you remember better? Well yes it does have some 'downer' effects, and will do so. But it also is killing parts of your short term and long term memory. http://teens.drugabuse.gov/facts/facts_mj1.php

Now lets go on to the gateway aspect. How many friends, family, or people I know do you need listed to hear how they went from pot to crack, coke, crank, lsd, speed, heroin, etc?

I have seen 70% of those who started with pot goto heavier drugs since 'pot never hurt me, these wont either'. And they did get hurt by the heavier drugs, just as they were hurt, though much less, by pot.

Yes outlawing something means those who do the action are then doing crimes, and un-outlawing would of course remove that classification of crime, but the crimes that expand outwards from drugs, including pot, are legion. Murder over pot happens and you wish to say it is just cause it is hidden and illegal, or cause murder over other properties still happen also. But I have seen people steal pot instead of money, I have seen people put things in hock just for pot, not for fuel for their vehicles, and I have seen other behaviors which are just insane to a normal person, from those using pot.

I do not care if you bong it, eat it, or smoke it. Any way you take this is going to affect your body and brain.

This is not a case of God giving us everything safely. You would not eat poison ivy for instance, nor would you eat some of the poisonous plants, so why do you even try to use God as an excuse? I could go on here, but I would lose those many athiests here if I do, so I leave the rest to other logic.

Alcohol was prohibited for a while in the United States. While this was in place there was not much talk of teens drinking, but adults who were desperate to drink. The number of teens with access to alcohol is high, but the number who get regularly drunk is such a small percentage of the regular drunk numbers. This is because it's hard to hide they got drunk, hard to hide they drank dad (or moms) supply, hard to keep getting it illicitly, etc.

The same is true, only more so for pot. If it is legalized however many more are going to use, and more of the effects are going to be found and hated. Full legalization would lead to large scale usage until society realized how harmful it was. Sadly many would be addicted, and then demand help getting un-addicted, meaning large government programs to help remove an addiction which should never have had a chance to occur.

I once would have been a libertarian, if they had not had that insane party policy that drugs are a humans right.

When you think that, I think of asking you to smoke some cyanide or eat some poison ivy. The difference is the effects happen a lot faster and more obvious.

Drugs are not cool, they are destructive.

Drugs are not safe, they are addictive.