• Posts: 2,151
  • Tag points: 4

Topic: Too Drunk To Consent?

"Too Drunk" Rape Trial:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h7tbGxI2QBVXu8Sa1iYqdduNI68Q

Men May Face Jail If She Is Drunk:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23379673-details/It's+rape+if+the+woman+is+drunk,+according+to+new+law/article.do
__________

  Recently a woman drank five bottles of wine, performed a sex act on a guy, helped the guy undress himself, helped the guy undress her, and then doinked him like the world was about to end. When she woke up she apparently decided that if she was too drunk to remember doing all of this then she must have been too drunk to know what she was doing when she gave consent, and therfore was raped.
The Jury, made mostly of women, told her to jog on.

  What I'm wondering is: if yes, you can be too drunk to be held accountable for the consent you give, then what about being too drunk to be held accountable for the death of the man you kicked 57 times outside of the nightclub last saturday? Too drunk to be held accountable for the child you ran over on sunday? Is being drunk an excuse for anything, or is it about time we all grew grown-up spines and learned to not pass our limits?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 5,595
  • Tag points: 241

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

It definitely isn't an excuse in the US, unless you're forcibly intoxicated.  wink

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,304
  • Tag points: 25

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Peer pressure made me drink!

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

4 Reply by V. Kemp (edited by K. William Fancsali 28-Mar-2009 21:07:53)

  • Posts: 4,369

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

It is a shady situation in the US, Zarf. People do get charged because women are too drunk to consent. And they do get convicted.

She shouldn't be dumb enough to black out around strangers, and he shouldn't be dumb enough to have sex with a stranger who's that messed up. Of course, if he's wasted too, that _should_ definitely be taken into consideration. It tends not to be. Sure she can be too drunk and slutty to make a good judgement call -- but he can be too drunk to evaluate her level of intoxication when she obviously wants it!

Generally speaking, don't be a whore-monger, and you won't get charged. tongue

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,557
  • Tag points: 30

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

I'm glad that chef guy got off. Whether or not he was guilty it would have set a dangerous precedent. As Fancsali points out, if the girl is too drunk to know what she is doing then the guy quite possible is too, so could the guy equally claim he was raped by drunken sex? If that guy was convicted it would become far too easy for girls who got too drunk and did something they regretted to claim rape, they should face up to the responsibility of their own actions in getting themselves that drunk to begin with.

Obviously it is quite another matter if a guy stays sober and intentionally plies a woman with drink till she blacks out tongue.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

6 Reply by Xeno (edited by xeno syndicated 27-Mar-2009 16:23:38)

  • Xeno
  • Xeno
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 4,779
  • Tag points: 34

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Anyone who gets too drunk to to be held accountable for his or her actions is too stupid to drink in the first place.

But there is needed a measure of sympathy and protection for women who have been traditionally oppressed, exploited, preyed upon by men.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

7 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 27-Mar-2009 16:29:11)

  • Posts: 3,454

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

its like a drunk person getting the people they crashed into arrested. if she is of legal age to drink and  if she willingly got herself in a position where she was so drunk she would have have sex with people she didnt want to, she has no one to blame but herself.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 14,366
  • Tag points: 68

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Plus everybody knows women can beg for it, enjoy it, go home and think about it, and "realize" they were "raped" and feel victimized for 100 years if they live that long.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,151
  • Tag points: 4

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

A woman an a man are alone together.
If the woman intentionally gets rolling-drunk while she is alone with the guy, is that implied consent?
What if the woman is rolling-drunk and the guy is sober when they have sex, is that rape?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,557
  • Tag points: 30

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Well that is the grey area isn't it tongue

If the guy is sober and the woman is rolling drunk as you put it then it depends on whether the woman can be judged to be sober enough to be able to give consent. Obviously if she has passed out and the guy has sex with her while she is unconscious then it is rape tongue but if she is only a little bit drunk to lose a bit of inhibition and they have sex then it clearly is definitely not rape.

If both man and woman are equally drunk then it cannot be rape because the woman's claim to be too drunk to make proper judgements can be equally claimed by the man.

If the woman is drunk but the guy is sober then it depends on to what degree the woman is drunk and if she got herself drunk or was plied with drink by the man first - was he spiking her drink? Buying a double when she asked for a single?

I've just thought of an interesting question though, if a guy got rolling drunk and raped a sober girl could he or should he be able to claim some kind of diminished responsibility because of he is drunk? That certainly would seem to be the implication to me if a drunk woman can claim her judgment was impaired by drink

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Entrapment 101

Get laid by a rich man

Get roaring drunk

Get friend to call 911 for you

Go to lawyer

Get lawyer to settle for a million dollars rather than prosecute

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Xeno
  • Xeno
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 4,779
  • Tag points: 34

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

What if they're both passed-out?

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,557
  • Tag points: 30

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Interesting plan tongue But how do you intend to get laid by a rich man?

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 7,941
  • Tag points: 14

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

I guess I have to get him drunk first tongue

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,557
  • Tag points: 30

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

haha tongue

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,454

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

as long as the woman freely chose to drink as much as they did, and they're of legal age, its no one's fault other then her own on her impaired judgment. she chose to drink that much and she's responsible for her decisions when she's drunk, whether that involves driving, or having sex, it doesnt matter, she has no one to blame but herself.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

17 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 28-Mar-2009 20:31:39)

  • Posts: 3,373

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

A lot of these sentiments that favor the woman's side on this issue are a result of the archaic belief that a woman is exploited or even corrupted when a man has sex with her outside of marriage, which has now been expanded to include a relationship. It is implicitly assumed by many that no woman would choose to have sex outside of a monogamous relationship without peer pressure, intoxication or coercion, and that belief is all a load of crap that should be dismissed as an artifact of our barbaric past. This mistaken belief is also the reason why prostitution is considered menial.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Mace
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 655
  • Tag points: 5

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Prostitution consiered 'menial'? Seems like jolly hard work to me.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

19 Reply by ..Nemeara.. (edited by ..Nemeara.. 29-Mar-2009 22:20:21)

  • Posts: 4,544
  • Tag points: 17

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

> Justinian I wrote:
> A lot of these sentiments that favor the woman's side on this issue are a result of the archaic belief that a woman is exploited or even corrupted when a man has sex with her outside of marriage, which has now been expanded to include a relationship.

>It is implicitly assumed by many that no woman would choose to have sex outside of a monogamous relationship without peer pressure, intoxication or coercion, and that belief is all a load of crap that should be dismissed as an artifact of our barbaric past. This mistaken belief is also the reason why prostitution is considered menial.



I dont think that's the point justi smile i think it's the view that rape is a such a violation on personal integrety, that even the remote chance of the intercourse not happening out of free will is enough to want to punish some one. (If the rape were to result in pregnancy, it adds to the trauma smile
men dont have that problem wink)
But even if a guy gets raped, it's as much as a violation of personal integrety (sp??) ofcourse.

till the end of time..

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Mace
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 655
  • Tag points: 5

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Zidi... well rape is the crime, the drinking isn't. The issue is not "Drunken sex" but "drunk and rape". The issue ultimately is about consent and "diminished responsibility".

To take your thoughts further: I think if a man goes out gets drunk and then pays for sex with a prostitute he should claim "diminished responsibility" when his wife calls him to task!
But that probably wouldn't wash.

Now if -as stated- the woman is spiked or deliberately made drunk for the purpose of sex, then that's rape. if two drunken people have sex, then that isn't. Unless one of them said 'No'.
I think generally police, lawyers, and juries understand that basic tenet

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

21 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 29-Mar-2009 22:31:16)

  • Posts: 3,454

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

its only rape if the drunk person is illegally drugged, or if the drunk person resists, but is overpowered.

too drunk to consent is bullshit, you as an adult cant use alcohol as an excuse to hide from your actions. a murderer doesnt not get tried for murder, a woman doesnt get to claim rape when she gave consent, because she was drunk.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,544
  • Tag points: 17

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

but what if the drunk resists so faintly that it is hardly noted?

till the end of time..

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

23 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 29-Mar-2009 22:43:35)

  • Posts: 3,373

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

Mace,

hah. A medium range escort can make $200 (the fair market value) in 15 minutes. She will probably say $200/hour, but in practice few will stay that long with her. They can make an upper middle class income by just seeing two clients a day.

Of course, different story if they work on the street or are coerced by pimps. But at the same time, I don't consider the line of work as being inherently low - we get that belief from our barbaric past.

Nem, I agree it's a violation to the person and it's bad. But my point is that these archaic beliefs, imo, also make people very sensitive and more likely to consider an act rape when it's not.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,454

Re: Too Drunk To Consent?

"
But my point is that the consideration that the work is "low" is a result of archaic beliefs."

all our beleifs are archaic at least in origin.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points