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Imperial Forum → Politics → The United States will have a Civil War
The only places in the Western weold where I think civil wars "might" break out are certain Western European nations with their cancerous growth of Muslims. But I don't see a civil war happening in the USA anytime soon.
Well I would also believe that civil war is more likely to occur in central europe. Italy and France I can most certainly believe it happening there. People are always out in the streets every other week, marching, against the government. The civil war though would have to occur when the military no longer has faith in the current government. That's when a break down in the chain of command occurs. We saw that with russia back in the day when the iron curtain fell. Hardliners and newly dedicated independant minded people.
I see maybe Italy, Mexico, and all of Africa going into civil war, within their own borders.
America is moving towards more centralized, undemocratic planning; a more powerful, unaccountable judiciary overturning elections and popular laws; there's also regional split between people living near vast resources and the politically powerful urban centers that don't draw income from resource exploitation, but demand a) lower prices for goods and b) lower exploitation of resources in the name of ecology. Also the "culture war" that says true liberty means regulating social norms. Also a decline in faith in the constitution; the bulk of Americans treat the government as some kind of scam perpetrated by liars. In the case of a serious economic or military collapse...
The only cultural war being waged in america are either by eco-terrorists, which are small in number, and lawyers espousing all sorts of inequality issues.
Eco-terrorists, and pro-lifers are the only two groups totally up in arms against the government at any one time, but against all of the nation who say they have a right to choose. There is not a humongous disproportionate gap that exists between plebians and the social elite. When every citizen of the united states decries foul play in equality, yah sure their maybe a civil war. But like i said, america is nothing more than a bunch of couch potatoes.
For those that have a job, and work long hours and five days a week, when they come home all they want to do is sit down and relax. They don't want to go out, their to damn tired. The only people who do want to go out are the college or higher education idiots, that are to busy studying or to busy partying over the weekend. Their mentality does not work on the premise of "rise up" with the right bo ear arms movement to make change. And to many fear of being killed in any sort of uprising. More often than not, a person would sooner RUN AWAY, than stand their ground in the face of immenent death.
In the olden days they talked of pride, honor, and glory. Most americans are prideful, but they do lack the honor, and they do not seek glory. No, there is going to be no civil war, at least in my lifetime, and possibly the lifetime of the next generation. If there was an economic collapse it will be like of the french. When that damn queen said, let them eat cake, little did she know the public wanted blood instead. An economic collpase would have to be TOTAL. We're talking half to 3/4's of the population of the united states. That would have to be the collapse of nearly every single business in america. And we're not talking just the banks. Your talking grocery stores, gas pumps, home building stores, plumping stores, the judicial system, police force. As long as their is money in circulation, with services to be given for monetary gain, we're gonna be good to go. The economy goes in hand in hand with the government. When the government collapses, then the economic infratstructure will collapse.
When the iron curtain fell, and the berlin wall came down, people were throwing money out of trains in moscow. The money had become worthless, because the government that had supported it had collapsed. Then their was a break in the chain of command with the military.
So if the former soviet union was a model, The government was to collapse or chainge, the economic monetary unit supported by that government would collapse afterwards. If a new government could not form properly soon afterwards, their would be a break down in military ranks of who to support if more than one government tried to reform after the original government failed.
That's how civil wars work. The economy can only collapse if the government failed to support it properly. Our economy has not failed. The people intrusted with that money failed. So no collapse, no civil war.
I actually think there might be a Civil War based on how much the Far Left pushes the Far Right. If Obama passes the fairness Doctrine and other extreme Liberal Agendas, then many hardcore Conservatives might just organize.
There already a good number of Militia Groups out there- though poorly equiped and run, all they need is a charismatic leader to unite them. They are not a threat now, but maybe a force to deal with in the future.
The only trigger that would really push the Civil War would be the removal of the 2nd Amendment; there are a lot of people out there who would not give up their guns without a fight. Not only would the NRA turn into the largest Militia Group, but a good chunk of the Military would rebel as well due to the number of Gun Owners in the military.
maybe a civil war is the only way out of the current overconsumption crisis.
country splits into USA and USA 2
USA 2 wins, its a new country, all debts wiped from the books, all assets owned by the new government, everyone has to buy everything back from the government.
Yeah. Because we'd let that happen.
Overconsumption is only an issue if we keep on sharing the stuff we want/need with the rest of the world. Gone are they days where we would just take everything we wanted. 
I swear, I would've kicked ass as a Colonical, and I could've worn white suits all day long.
"Yeah. Because we'd let that happen.'
A LOT more probable than we pay off all promises. Our total payout including Medicare adn social Security is about $60 trillion, more than World GDP 2008.
BTW Han you Chinese gotta keep buying US securities so we can pay you back for the ones you bought from 1999 - present. Google "ponzi scheme" for more details on how it works.
It's time for old people to fend for themselves?
lol @ ponzi scheme.
I pitty the fool who shows up saying I need to buy my own assets.
It's called Social Security tax and its taken out of every paycheck
Democrats are toying with "offering" you the chance to have the govt take over your 401k into the Social Security system--now we all know what that means if a socially irresponsible majority decline the offer!
Ponzi scheme!
Rally against the Ponzi scheme!
I'm armed and ready.
They want to confiscate your guns.Watch out
Two radio talk show hosts have talked about Revolution. A CNBC man talked of a new Boston Tea Party.
How can you miss the signs?
The death of the United States is soon to happen, keep spending freely then when the bill comes you wont have anything to show for the spending.
Well, the US army could crush the rebellion. And as far as I know, the US military is loyal to the federal govt atm. They are able to pretty much get what they want. Now if the military was alienated and starved, then it would be a different story.
This isn't the ancient age where a group of angry peasants could possibly pwn an army of professional soldiers if they had enough numbers. In the modern period, good luck fighting a professional army ahahaha.
yay, has the war started yet flintard?
The soldiers are loyal to the constitution, yet they are not happy with the administration or congress. Just ask, acting as a conservative mind you, or you wont get any answers from them, how they feel about all the shit happening with our government?
Yes the vast majority.
Plus honestly you think that the millions of veterans are daunted by our military? We know the act of soldiering and our own equipment. Most of us are trained better than the current generation, and under tougher trainers to boot.
Heck elimination of the dont ask dont tell has already put a significant number of combat troops on the edge.
Look further now
Some states are threatening to try to leave the Union if the act of the Feds does not correct itself. Many Governors are refusing most or all of the Federal Money offered to them, you cannot get most ammunition types because it is constantly sold out, gun sales continue to stay at high records, many counties in States hostile to gun rights are making proclamations/amendments/demands to support the 2nd amendment throughout the whole state.
Militias continue to grow, popular figures are now worried about 'civil strife' which means they expect civil war soon, and are talking about it on the lowest level they can get away with, but the number talking about it grows daily.
How can you miss the storm?
Revolutions never involve fighting national armies, Justinian I. Governments have ALWAYS had FAR more effective violence at their disposal when dealing with revolutions. It's when they lose favor with popular opinion and lose the concensus of the people that their armed forces will not kill their countrymen.
I listened to NRA News seriously for the first time ever, usually I dont listen to it. At a gun show they were interviewing people. Those people talked openly to a mike about being prepared for a revolution or civil war.
Also other points for Justinian
1) There is 90 million armed Americans in this nation.
2) The US Military has 1 million persons
3) There is roughly 8 million miles of road in the United States.
4) I cannot find figures for how many commercial and government buildings there are, but there is 115 million homes, apartments, and trailer park type mobile homes in the US.
5) There is 250,000,000 auto's functioning in the United States at this given time.
6) The Pacific Southwest Region of the US Forest Service manages 20 million acres of National Forest land in California
7) There is roughly 20 million US (non-WWII) Veterans alive at this given time.
8) Police and detectives held about 861,000 jobs in 2006. Seventy-nine percent were employed by local governments. State police agencies employed about 11 percent, and various Federal agencies employed about 7 percent. A small proportion worked for educational services, rail transportation, and contract investigation and security services.
Now the US has the best military equipment, this I will never ever doubt. We have the best overall training as well. And we are masters of the night, we are masters of the open battlefield.
Yet this nation is made up of cities, deserts, towns, forests, plains, highways, agriculture area's, roads, etc.
The problem for the Government is that while they can stop any large scale movements, if they have at least 75% of the military with them, they cannot stop a true neighbor versus neighbor type civil war. Not and even try to maintain any fiction of employment. They would need a 100% curfew to stop a civil war, and even then they would literally require 10 million soldiers, 20 million police officers, and a significant increase in equipment.
Add in that most Veterans know where they can obtain heavy weapons, if only from the previous holder, know where the bases are, know where ammo dumps are, know their region truly well, and typically blend in really well... plus the NRA's people know how to shoot, have tons of spare weapons, and would mostly, if not entirely, be in the side against Obama and his side...
You get the perfect civil war. One with 60 million or so dead, a re-written constitution preventing socialism forever, and affirming gun rights in stone, titanium, diamond, blood, and even carbon nanotubes for strength.
Teachers, Media Personnel, Government Bureaucrats, people on social programs will suffer the most imo. Students might get lumped in there, matters, I just don't know how high the anger level is against the "I want it all, and I want it now generation".
War in the US will lead to war elsewhere while we are 'distracted'. Iran into Iraq if we pull out entirely, Pakistan might hit India, genocide in Indonesia, Israel versus Syria and Lebanon, might be a civil war in France, might be a civil war in a couple other Euro nations, genocide in Bosnia, genocide in Sweden, Russia will invade Georgia and the Ukraine with only a piss in the wind for an excuse, perhaps even Poland will get invaded. China will look to Taiwan which will then further crush the worlds economy as the invasion will end the stock market based profits there, China might also try to take some other random "old Han lands" of a nation out, I suspect Vietnam would be the target. N. Korea attacks S. Korea, Muslim Radicals will be more active via thinking that if they can break all the world down then all will convert to Islam, and a few nations with the least issues will try to help the West get free from the issues of civil war and terrorism as quickly as they can, such as Japan and Australia.
Socialism will then have died by the gun, and will never rear it's head, but the hundreds of millions dead around the world will ultimately be the butchers bill which will sicken us all.
*sighs*
There's too much pessimism in the world already to have this thread here. Course there will always be a few fringe nutjobs that think everything is going to explode into a million different pieces if everything doesn't go their way....
....and it's always the nutjobs who cause the problems for everyone else.
I am sorry but the 'nut jobs' out number the 'sane' here in the United States.
This is not some fringe group stuff, this is a starting of the coalescing of emotions which are brought on by the complete and obvious destruction of our nation, and all we hold dead.
A thief gets shot by those with a gun when he intrudes in the house, those without guns lose everything. Robbing Paul to pay Peter is stupid if Paul is armed and angry.
"This is not some fringe group stuff, this is a starting of the coalescing of emotions which are brought on by the complete and obvious destruction of our nation, and all we hold dead."
Umm no. Go and ask your neighbors if you like and take a survey. You'll find they don't think the US is going to have a civil war. Only in the disillusioned minds of a select few do they see this. And trust me, many people in the NRA are certified crazy as well. You shouldn't take their ramblings for mainstream America.
"A thief gets shot by those with a gun when he intrudes in the house, those without guns lose everything. Robbing Paul to pay Peter is stupid if Paul is armed and angry."
I live in Texas, i know all about that. 
You should have seen the signs after Ike blew through. ^.^
Note: Fear not though, even if the world comes crashing down our children are well prepared for the upcoming DOOM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/are_violent_video_games
<3 The Onion
I am traveling the United States, and I am talking to people at every stop. I know what the emotions are. I know how hot this pot has gotten and I have a fair idea of when it will boil over.
You have nothing.
Imperial Forum → Politics → The United States will have a Civil War
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