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Imperial Forum → Politics → Tibet Under Siege
Its for us all...... Oh China, oh China...... What a great Country. Such a model for us all.
The Next great super-Power.
Sure, let us all Sing..
Rejoice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas
hw abt this?
dailytech.com
nasa reports shows that some n. american air pollution actually belongs to china/east asia
read the comments on how you can't see the sky in shanghai cuz of the smog. that's worse than mexico city
"Any group of people who riot against a particular race/religion of people and the property of those people, deserve to be shot at. I said that with the riots in Sydney, i'm saying it about the riots in (near?) Tibet."
And any police group that shoots at its citizens (for whatever reason) can only do so when it is clearly their last and only recourse; when all other peaceful means have been exhausted, and, moreover, only when a free and open press is present to make sure that any abuses by either side of the conflict don't go unnoticed.
If religious fanatics start taking over the streets, killing and damaging the property of everyone else then a firm response is needed. The Dalai Lama's fanatics to be more specific - observing the way they treated/treat other Buddhist sects this looks to be their handiwork.
amerikkka should take care of their own problems before worrying about someone else's all amerikkka want is tibet to be independent so they can set up a base there.
Ok read this earlier on, just read thread start to finish.
"Canada: Quebec Referendum or just all pack up leave and give the land back to the native people"
We've given them three referendums each time they've voted no. But for some reason the people keep electing the same separatist provincial government who keeps bringing the issue up.
"I don't think the native people are rioting in the streets, and I don't think Quebec has started riots for independence."
FLQ (Le Front du Liberation de Quebec [The Front for Liberation of Quebec]) October Crisis 1973. Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau enacted the War Measures Act to instate martial law and round up the members of the FLQ. The one time in history the Canadian government has been decisive and ruthless and the Quebecois remember hence no riots.
"Besides, don't the majority of Canadians want Quebec to disappear?"
Not Quebec just the Quebecois 
On the issue of Tibet, sorry that went longer than I'd hoped, IF tavius is correct and the Dalai Lama did sign a treaty stating they were part of China then China does have a legitimate legal claim to the land. IF NOT then China is no better, or worse, than any other country that has invaded another for land or to eliminate leadership they did not agree with (so the list of people who can criticize is really small). Whether or not China opresses its people is irrelevant. Unless it can be proven that the oppression violates the terms of a UN or other international treaty THAT CHINA HAS SIGNED it is a completely domestic issue and is not the concern of anyone but the Chinese.
@tavius
"a firm response is needed"
May I ask, who are you to decide what is 'needed' in this situation? I could just as easily claim that if religious people (not only monks) who have traditionally been tolerant and peaceful, and whose religious teachings are all about tolerance and peacefulness, suddenly become outraged, an analysis of potential mitigating circumstances that might explain their anomalous actions should be conducted.
Regarding the religious fanatics 'handiwork', should we start discussing the Capatalistic / Communistic / Fascist / outright Confusionistic Chinese Government's historic 'handiwork'?
You bring up a few anomalous, rare undesirable occurrences in traditional Tibetan society. In all fairness, you should make a tally accounting for the abuses committed by both sides.
Go ahead and perform in-depth analysis on your own time whilst mosques are being burnt down and those who are the wrong kind of Chinese get cut down in the streets.
As for traditionally tolerant and peaceful, look back at some of my previous posts in this thread. First they brutalise their fellow Tibetans when they were in charge and now they claim to speak on behalf of their private wishes. roflmao
Takes more than Nancy Polosi throwing her "support" behind the religious nuts who perpetrate this violence to convince me to do the same. If religious-inspired violence isn't tolerated on the streets of Baghdad (as it shouldn't be under any circumstance) then why adopt a different position here? Then again casuistry is rife in politics.
the chinese are the invaders, I have little sympathy for the few that have been cut-down in the streets. no doubt many more Tibetans will end up dead by the end of hostilities.
but what if it was the indonesians that kept australia down?
most of the chinese in tibet are immigrants- few were born there. they've recently arrived as china has built transport links into Tibet.
As far as I know, Tavius, the only country showing any sign of support for China's crackdown on Tibet is the recently established military dictatorship of Fiji. Would you happen to be from Fiji, Tavius?
@DPS,
The agreement can be found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Point_Agreement
Note however, that "It was, under People's Liberation Army's military pressure, signed and sealed" had the Dalai Lama as reference..in 1981.
"But if, say, Indonesia was to invade Australia 100 years ago...and 'Australians' rioted now, specifically targeting people with Indonesian descent, then yes -- i would be all for the shooting."
As you are from Australia, a country with only a couple hundred years of history and cultural identity, your sense of the relatively little importance of a people's cultural identity clouds your opinion. Consider a country with thousands of years of the development of their own cultural identity, their own unique language, history, art, religion, etc. They will less easily forget and less easily forgive foreign invaders.
Oh you mean like the original inhabitants - the Aborigines? Or perhaps you were referring to the native peoples of North America.
As long as China keeps international news and fact finding agencies out of Tibet, the international community will asume the worst about China.
> Simon wrote:
> @DPS,
>The agreement can be found:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_Point_Agreement
>Note however, that "It was, under People's Liberation Army's military pressure, signed and sealed" had the Dalai Lama as reference..in 1981.
Ok so we have a legal international treaty signed under possible durress. Unfortunately for Tibet that doesn't matter because precidents have already been set on these conditions being legal and acceptable. So China does have a legitimate legal claim to Tibet. So now it's just a matter of whether or not China's claim trumps Tibet's.
This is not a matter to be settled with guns and tanks it just needs lawyers. I reccomend that every country that has them rounds up their ambulance chasers and ships them off to China, split 50/50 between the two, and let them come to a settlement.
legal shmegal- the ONLY thing that matters is BRUTE FORCE. China like many nations around the world has used BRUTE FORCE to achieve what they want & provided there is a lack of will to stop them they get away with it.
Parrot I am disgusted at that comment from you. How childish.
I do not want Tibet as a base. I want Tibet free. Nothing else. I am also a politician in this United States, and my view reflects most of them.
god dammit flint, I thought you were better than that. You let me down man.
he let the whole ic community down O(
Flint is speaking/typing like a true politician. He should be praised instead.
"legal shmegal- the ONLY thing that matters is BRUTE FORCE. China like many nations around the world has used BRUTE FORCE to achieve what they want & provided there is a lack of will to stop them they get away with it."
True but it's overly messy, expensive, and entirely unnecessary. Why beat your enemy to death with a baseball bat when you can slit his throat with a scalpel. Using brute force your enemy has a chance to fight back, using the law they don't have that opportunity (as long as you're in the right legally)
/panda explains to the humans:
Your civilization is run by amoralists. It's always been this way. It is built into your system. The humans who use means regardless of moral principles to attain positions of power are usually more successful than those who try to gain power while adhering to moral principles. In effect, the latter has one figurative paw - err - hand tied behind their back.
As such, /panda is surprised why the humans are surprised when their leaders send them off to war, or brainwash them, or exploit them, or any of the other amoral things leaders of humans do to the humans they lead.
amoralist
noun
someone who adheres to the doctrine that ordinary moral distinctions are invalid (WordNet
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