"It's not like you can have a political discussion someone who is most comfortable with an all powerful government that tells you what to do, what you can earn, and what you can and cannot say. They tell you what's right."

He's a libertarian for the most part.

I thought you were refering to Geert Wilders. Never mind.

"I dont think anything is wrong with moving towards having one culture and I believe immigrants eventually pick it up 2nd generation and after. Myself being an immigrant to the United States, I can tell you that I picked up the culture really fast (i was 6 yers old when i moved here so i am considered 1st generation). And having the same culture is important to any country. this doesnt mean that other cultures can't contribute and it also doesn't mean that if you assimilate to the netherlands you have to give up your religion."

The Netherlands has had hundreds of nationalities assimilate to our culture for hundreds of years. It's what made this country great, immigration was the catalyst of our Golden Ages. However, Muslims immigrants AND their 2nd/3rd generation offspring are incompatible with Western culture, they don't integrate and assimilate. Whereas most immigrant people loved and cherished the freedoms and opportunities this country provided them, the Muslims are appalled by it.

Muslims intolerance for Western culture is the reason why the Netherlands is going from one of the most tolerant nations in the world to a place where people are bitter about the future and when they demand harsher and harsher policies from the government to keep the Muslims in check.

There are still to many cases of honour killings, female circumcisions, imported brides, violent attacks on white people, rising amounts of anti-Semitism, rising attacks on homosexuals, calling our woman whores etc. You'd be surprised by the racial makeup of our prisons..
And we treated them well, they benefited from all the social policies the Dutch created, they got laid of, they got welfare. Trouble getting a job? No problem, there is a minimum immigrant quota for employers, so that they have to employ immigrants over better qualified Dutchmen.

You might call Wilders a hate monger. I call him a realist, a politician who isn't afraid to say what's happening every day in the cities and villages of this beautiful country. The old political parties are afraid of him, they were the ones who have neglected the problems for decades, and he just brings their failings in full light.

They've pushed him in the hate monger/racist corner the second he became a threat to their power in Parliament. They did the same to Pim Fortuyn, and he got killed for it. Geert Wilders lives on military facilities with 24/7 surveillance and bodyguards where ever he goes.

Ups, I think I just did a rant..

""It's what made this country great, immigration was the catalyst of our Golden Ages."
That wasn

The products of slavery were very much a source of income for us.
And what do you consider dutch soil, Surinam was dutch soil, and there were plenty of slaves there.

Either way, ofcourse there was a series of intellectuals migrating to the dutch provinces, however, that's barely comparable to giving asylum to refugees.

You gooks named your elite commandos "the A-Team"???

Hiring quotas? That is bogus, one of the few lasting victories of the American right-wing was busting those up. Its discrimination.

I know how you feel Biefstukfriet there is a radical Muslim element from East Africa, mainly Somali, in the Great Lakes area and they demand the right to deny service to people carrying alcohol, using guide dogs, and homosexuals, because it is contrary to Islam. Kind of difficult on others when the Muslims own a lot of the cab companies serving the airport... Though most of the beef about immigration in America is nationalist rather than cultural we have the same complaints about crime, employment and political unrest as you.

President Bush said "we should be proud so many are willing to leave their homes and come work here" I am proud of the people who come here to make America their home, if their allegiance and loyalty is to a home somewhere else and they just interfere in our politics to be able to milk our economy of goodies, they aren't "immigrants". And that's most of the 40 million illegals in our borders.  They can expect to be here temporarily, and we'll set the time limits.

if they think our culture is damaging, why did they come here in the first place?

"The products of slavery were very much a source of income for us.
And what do you consider dutch soil, Surinam was dutch soil, and there were plenty of slaves there."

Never denied it, it just was not our main source of income, nor the reason why we had our Golden Age. Concerning the soil, I was refering to the fatherland, not the colonies.

"i'm no mind reader, perhaps to support their family? to avoid the bombings happening in Iraq, to avoid the Israelis? there is no perfect country people can go to where they agree with 100% of their policies."

Most of our Muslims come from Turkey and Morroco, so avoiding war and prosecution isn't an issue. Mind you we're not talking about political refugees, but immigrants who came here for a job, which is fine, but they never were supposed to settle down here, it's where the Dutch goverment let this nation down, they did not deport the immigrants when their term was over. Secondly, our culture has been able to assimilate cultures for hundres of years. As for policies, policies are not culture.

"and no matter how many more generations your ancestors were int he country, it doesnt make your opinion more important or valid."

Then let's agree to disagree, because I do think it makes my point valid.

how did your ancestors come to your country? did they not migrate? arent we all ancestors of immigrants? to use your example, we are all guests in our houses, and we were given no restrictions, and now you want to kick people out of the house that neither of you own if they dont follow your rules because by random chance you happened to wander into the house before them.

Exploitation is a fact of life. Life is good when you're at the top of the hill.

I think these idealist goofs who provide moral arguments to justify Western reparations to the losers 200 years ago, even if it is in the form of encouraging immigration, are either envious or hyperempathic losers. By the latter, you know the type. Their sympathy is triggered too easily, and it extends beyond their in-group. In Elementary school they're the ones we make fun of, but as adults we consider them exemplary... wtf

An exemplary individual is one who is motivated by self-interest and exercises power on their own merit. They don't care about saving the third world, rather they want to better themselves and those who are in their web of interdependence.

A loser... A lazy liberal wheeny... wants to stall progress and redistribute resources to the weak, lazy, and pathetic. Haha, they want to redistribute resources to the losers like them.

"how did your ancestors come to your country? did they not migrate? arent we all ancestors of immigrants? to use your example, we are all guests in our houses, and we were given no restrictions, and now you want to kick people out of the house that neither of you own if they dont follow your rules because by random chance you happened to wander into the house before them."

Yeah, then it would be "my" house.  Hey, lemme use some of "our" money.  Just because it got paid to you first doesn't mean you can tell me 'no'.