Seriph, if  you only had your attacker exploring that would be a bad waste of 6 expo ships a day

The magic doesn't count for defense.. so as long as you just keep enough wizzies not to be hypno and estormed to death.. It doesn't matter if you want the rest to be agent opps

Indeed

Are you sure? Not too long ago we a had a discussion on this and you said Stefan said it only effected magic and it wasn't supposed to effect defense... I just spent like 30mins searching through old threads looking for the discussion but couldn't find it

thats not stefan!

stefan does not reply in 1min!!! (unless he awnsered 24hours and 1min later)

well, the no pop growth bonus, and the only 35% income bonus hurt a little bit. but it can be done, especially if you're not in a topfamily

again, -30% magic on pop banker is not good

God...this thread upsets me :s ...I love pop banking...been following it for a while now, So I'll finally post my thoughts.  From someone who's pop banked a lot and sucessfully.

In a top fam, I'd want my pop bankers to go something like this + This is how I pop bank when I do:

-----

Population growth: 10%
Income: 50%
Research: 50%
Attack: -30%
Magic: -30%
   
Spells
Vision
Space Amazement

Operations

Specials
Tax Office

-----

I never go Revalons.  The Bonus I get to Research (and ops I want) far outweigh the extra 10% in +Income.  My research at end game will outweigh the benefit and I'll get more.  Plus the help I can do with ops in a Fam is crucial in a top fam.

Op wise,
- Space Amazement is imperative to get off to a great start to the round.  I'll always start CF/RC and research construction in the beginning.  Then later switch to LQ/TO eventually (How I do the switch isn't relevant to this thread - but there are plenty of strats around).
- Vision - This is an amazing op for recon in top fams, I always use it.
- Losing 10% research for 2 more ops, is also possible.  This is good in slightly less coordinated fams.  This way you can go for PI/Infil if needed.  Or if you are fine on agent ops, my preference would be to go for CPFF (this is insanely useful, as even with -30% magic, the sheer amount of wizzies the pop banker should have, means you get through a LOT) and Destroy Iron (can work out VERY handy), or can replace Destroy Iron with Kill Scientists.

The research helps me in this race because I go construction early.  Means I usually have enough in it, to give me cheaper buildings (very handy for pop), and cheaper Wizards, so that I can have more.  Keep in mind, when I say I have cons, this is only initially (and fund it heaps just before big pop jumps).  Otherwise, cons research is not my main focus.  What I do is 100% Eco, till about 50% and then once I have enough pop to make it worthwhile (where the food payback is good too) then switch to Welfare too.

The idea that Primo keeps hamering on about, about the -30% Magic is somewhat true.  It's definitely bad obviously.  However the idea is to just have more wizzies (Cons research aids this, plus the fact you'll have a higher income, so you can essentially build more).  It's not ideal - but it's my preference as a pop banker for the trade offs given.
The idea is, you should have a lot of wizzies, to stop the average Tom, Dick or Harry opping your pop.  Obviously though, (even if you had 50% magic) ...you're never going to stop someoen jumping more wizzies with you, with a +50% magic (or +70% even) and opp away your pop if you're at war or something.  You'll never really be able to stop that, unless your fam is a huge eco powerhouse.  But even taking that into consideration, a pop banker should already be giving more value to the fam than not being there at all.

I love this race, cos I really believe it maximises income by way of income AND research and has dedicated ops as needed.  Be sensible with your opp defense, and if in a relatively decent fam - you're bound to bring in the dough.

/me tickles Torqez and Primo.

-30 magic is no longer the draw back it used to be.  When CFs were at 6gcs a piece - all bankers were pop bankers.  In that day, the Glorious Partaxians and there 70% magic bonuses were plentiful as they were needed to wipe these slob-esque  cash creators from the universal food pool.  But times... they have changed.  The shorter rounds and the increased gayness of CFs have lowered the usefulness of the Paxes (I was even removed from a family at the start off a round in a racially motivated anti-Partaxian attack).  Therefore, the worse a banker may run into is some inactive hybrid wanna be Pax who has picked 50% attack and 50% magic.   Seeing to do any real damage a caster needs 3 times the number of wizzies as the target, you can see that empires that choose to resource, retake and op - most likely won't have the wizzies needed for a proper E-storm Banker barbecue.

Run with -30 magic, you will be more safe then not.