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Imperial Forum → Politics → Wow, British education must be getting bad.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28938136/?gt1=43001
'"Apostrophes denote possessions that are no longer accurate, and are not needed," he said. "More importantly, they confuse people. If I want to go to a restaurant, I don't want to have an A-level (high school diploma) in English to find it."'
LOL, wtf? How can an apostrophe confuse you? Everyone in the US knows it denotes a possessive... you don't need a honors high school diploma to know that.
LOL @ you thinking everyone in the U.S. knows that.
Thats just cute.
...
I mean come on, you couldn't pass Middle School English if you didn't know that. They hammered us with grammar - predicates, subjects, punctuation, and simple, compound, and complex sentences etc.
who exactly do you mean by "us"?
I find it pretty ridiculous how many people get apostrophes wrong, and I think it is clearly stupid to remove them from street signs. However, saying that British people are stupid because of it is quite silly.
In the report about this I read in The Times newspaper it said that apostrophes were removed from US street signs in the 1890s
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5614962.ece
And they were removed from Australian signs a couple of years ago too. So in the English speaking world, the UK has held out longer than other places.
Speaking of criticising ignorance, why would your US source start with the word LONDON for a story it then goes on to say is about Birmingham?
SD,
I did not imply that the British people are stupid, and nor am I concerned about the fact that street signs are removing apostrophes. So it's a moot point when you mention dates of other English-speaking countries that removed apostrophes from street signs decades or centuries earlier.
My concern is the claim by one commentator that apostrophes confuse people, which is why I quoted it, and that claim from a local is a disturbing suggestion on the status of British education. The only comparison I made implied that the US must value grammar education more than Britain does, not that Americans were better educated overall to Britons. I also implied that the puzzling response from people in Britain toward apostrophes suggests a downward trend in the quality of British education.
Did they ever get around to even putting a lot of those rural country road signs back up after World War II? Or is it still, as Bono put it, where the streets have no name?
I don't see why a street sign should be using correct english...that's just bloody stupid.
Language is there to be used as a tool to convey meaning and information. Thats it.
Do remember that different people will be looking at these signs. From the gifted to the gift-wrapped, from native-english speakers to foreigners, from children to the elderly and from sober to drunks.
Loosing stupid little symbols is fine by me.
> "I also implied that the puzzling response from people in Britain toward apostrophes suggests a downward trend in the quality of British education."
Search "Americans are stupid" on any video site. There will always be idiots in the community, you cannot help that -- and it doesn't really show the quality of an entire country's education either.
Wow. I just lost respect for everyone who supported this and got it enacted.
>>Loosing stupid little symbols is fine by me.<<
Get an education and stop wasting your time on a forum.
>>There will always be idiots in the community, you cannot help that <<
You can't make them more intelligent or educated human beings. But you don't have to contribute to their idiocy. That's what this is.
> That's what this is.
No, this is the removal of redundancy.
If you're sitting back & jerking off to English punctuation i sincerely pity you.
Crying like a bitch over nothing really gets you no where. Like i said...more then one demographic will be using those signs.
To call this "redundancy" is ignorant. Try to defend ignorance of a simple function of language which HOLDS MEANING more. You're a tool.
welcome to a post written exclusively for those of you who are claiming that punctuation is useless and redundant i cannot help but wonder if this claim is a smoke screen to distract from your own illiteracy my girlfriend assuming shes still talking to me has problems with spelling which is hardly surprising as english is one of the worlds most complicated languages and yet she has never had any trouble with punctuation in any way shape or form anyone with even a small understanding of communcation can see that punctuation is neccessary now some of you may thing that I am being excessive but let us be honest if you remove one mark of punctuation then it will not be long before the scrubbers chavs and the plain stupid will take this as a sign that they can freely butcher the language however they see fit which will make it much harder for non native speakers to understand the language as anyone who has spent any time around an englishman with a strong dialect wilol tell you in fact I am almost certain that some of you would not be able to communicate with me effectively without my above average command of the english language i think I have proven my point
If anyone ever makes me do that again I will hunt them down like a rabid dog, hack off their limbs, and then rape them with their own floppy fist. X(
hahahahhaha
In this age of self-righteous willful ignorance the stupid think they deserve to bring things down to their level. God forbid their children aren't stupid too. What a crime that would be.
um...in most countries now there are no punctuations on street signs. The more is on the street sign, the longer it takes to read it...split seconds of course, but really...
if we start seeing headlines like " man ran a stop sigh , says he was confused there was no exlamation mark to tell him it was serious" then it doesnt matter. Did you also stop to think maybe it is a money thing? they can use more ink to make more signs, effectivly keeping more people safe. There are many efficiency reasons to make this change. Has nothign to do with grammer, and i dont think this will effect the persons ability to read the sign.
Give it a rest, and stop doing crack.
"The more is on the street sign, the longer it takes to read it...split seconds of course, but really..."
Exactly.
"i think I have proven my point"
No...Who the [plopperdeplopperdeplopperderplop] reads a paragraph of text on a sign?
>>they can use more ink to make more signs
You do not use ink on street signs genius.
Paragraphs on street signs?
Sure they do, just travel the US some times. 3-4 sentences easily.
However I do agree normally that smaller = easier... But if the apostrophe is at the end of the word... wont that mean you already have the gist of the word?
Sounds like an expensive sign re-painting effort to me. I wonder if the company that is likely to get the contract pays... errrmm... lobbies and donates to the political campaign of... it's politicians currently in control over there?
> Sure they do, just travel the US some times. 3-4 sentences easily.
You have 3-4 sentences on a street sign :S. Err....
ok not ink..whatever they use...more signs + less materials = more money
its kinda like picking apart my argument because of the grammer...my point still stands.
Imagine how many street signs they have to make every year in all of britain (they DO replace them time to time 
)
in a way, im kinda disapointed with myself for even arguing this point...its a pretty sad argument
http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/3/35/Interstate4Signs.JPG/450px-Interstate4Signs.JPG
http://www.southeastroads.com/alabama070/us-090_098_truck_eb_at_traffic_st.jpg
http://www.southeastroads.com/alabama070/us-090_eb_app_us-098_03.jpg
Notice the signs behind this one, good luck reading them all
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/MCT/images/weight_limit_sign.GIF
I cannot find some of the more wordy street signs, these will have to do.
[okay, i had my fun ]
It doesn't save money to print ignorant signs.
It doesn't save anyone time to look at an inaccurate/incorrect sign twice while asking oneself why something that millions of people read wouldn't be checked to ensure it was accurate.
Signs with apostrophes are not "STOP" and other signs which affect driver safety.
Stop making stuff up and maybe we'll stop making fun of you for being so stupid.
If you cannot see the oppositional points V.Kemp this thread is pointless.
Its simple. Read...carefully:
Signs provides information. English conveys information. People need information urgently. Apostrophes are irrelevant in said information -- so they are redundant. When it comes to road safety and transportation efficiency redundancy should be removed.
Get it?
>>When it comes to road safety and transportation efficiency redundancy should be removed.<<
Signs which are necessary for road safety do not contain apostrophes. This has previously been stated. Therefore, apostrophes are not irrelevant in said information because they are not present in said information. This has previously been stated. They are not "redundant," but this claim was not actually supported to begin with so I have nothing to discredit in my pointing this out.
There are times when a lack of apostrophes can simply add to confusion. With certain names being shared by towns, landmarks, and all other varieties of commercial institutions, using the correct names in signs to correlate with the actual names of the towns/landmarks/institution avoids any confusion. Some places with this shared name DON'T use an apostrophe. Their name simply includes the common name. Other places DO use an apostrophe which include the same shared name. Having signs that reflect the actual names of places is common sense. It's accurate. It avoids confusion. If an apostrophe slows down your reading of a sign, it's probably best you don't show up anywhere and engage other human beings in any sort of interaction anyway. Again, they're not present in any road safety signs anyway. I don't know where that proposed argument came from but it's hardly debatable that it makes any sense. Apostrophes can't make certain necessary safety signs dangerous when they are present in exactly 0 of them.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Wow, British education must be getting bad.
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