I think Israel is nice to bring about it's own destruction. With invading Gaza they have crossed a line, they just don't know it yet. The US stayed neutral (and, apparently, first wanted to condemn) on the violence by Israel ('and Gaza') which is a pretty big change considering years and years of blind support for Israeli attacks.

Really, this was the most stupid thing Israel could do. More and more people now hate it, and though it gained something on the short term (elections) the fact that a nation starts preparing for an invasion right after they negotiated a ceasefire (cf. planning this invasion took a year) shows them for the dogs they are. No-one will trust Israel and a lot of people will get disgusted by it. I give Israel about 50 years as a state (I'm not talking about it's inhabitants). Already it's population would appear to be shrinking.

Also, I ask you, what has Israel ever attributed to this world? What is it's added value? It hasn't created anything either culturally or politically. All it is, is a new Spartan nation, famous only for it's military, it's conscription and it's walls. Israel is leaving nothing behind and will return to ashes and dust in a short (in terms of history) time. And even that it only achieved thanks to outside help.
Notice that in this paragraph I do not talk of jews outside Israel but only of Israel.

Btw Justinian, on Machiavelli: read the discourses instead of the prince and learn some politics.

> I actually believe you to be serious.

> One day, you should have evil befall one of your loved ones SKOE.
> Then, you can practice what you preech.

If you think i am serious, you are even less competent then i had first presumed.

> Lets see how you would treat the one who randomly chooses a loved one of yours,
> and executes that loved one..... just because they hate your loved one......for what ever conveluted reason.

If Israel was situated next to Australia, and it oppressed Australia like this, and if my loved ones were killed i would take up arms myself. Training or no training. And that can be said for Hamas too, if they were next door.

> Really, this was the most stupid thing Israel could do.

Not really, they could have done worse.

Unless Turkey declares war, i sincerely doubt Israel is going anywhere during Obamas term (or the one thereafter). So it might hurt Israel in 10 years or so, but by then who knows what world event will lead us stray...

> Also, I ask you, what has Israel ever attributed to this world?

As a country, nothing i guess :S. Together with the U.S. they have developed weapons...But the Israeli people have contributed just like any other country.

Whats the difference between lobbing missiles at country and targeting buildings with civilians in them?

here we have it again...
someone not agree with the politics of israel.. he directlly gets labled as jew hater or nazi.
this is simply sick. The fact israel are jews does not make them untouchable and allways right.
The politics of the state israel are the problem, not the fact israelis are mostly jews.

There even are jews who do not agree to the politics of israel? are those jew hating jews?

Hahaha banned....

Now back ontopic: I didn't read through the enitre thread, so i could repeat somebody else. Sorry for that.

Like some others i don't understand why so many ppl suddenly start hating the Israeli's so much. Ok, i don't like them so much either, but i don't hate them. I dislike their politics and the way they handle everything in the ME.

But if they didn't had the strong military, they would have died in that area decades ago.
If Israel decides to disband it's army, it will stop to exist in less then a year, i bet all muslim neighbours will jump on them right away then, so not having a strong military is not an option for Israel.

If i were Israel i would Hamas to hell and beyond, damn fundamentalist terrorists they are. The only way they got support from the palestines is because they are good for them, they build infra, schools/hospitals.....
Hamas hates Jews, together with Iran and half of the ME. Occasionaly one blows himself up on a bus/market or when they got supplies from Iran, they shoot missiles.

Israel doesn't likes the missiles, so they bomb them in return.
Accidently, 50% or more of the bombs hit civilians, relatives join Hamas, Hamas fires even more rockets.
Israel bombs back, and the circle is round.

My 2 cents

I think you could make a better case telling they re intercepting suicide bombers on a weekly basis than just saying the other party started it, and they ve been at it or the past 2 years BW

i think media exposure is of great influence on both sides;  people are shown only part and most likely only one side of stories, or just one event out of a series of events, add some religious fanaticism, et voila

by the way, how many of you have received emails with pictures of victims from either side / good deeds done by either side in it?...With the message to pass it on x(

i think he tries to explain that if it s their tactics to hide between civilians and use "save"buildings, then they re equally responsible for their civilians dying   And it that sense it s a win/win situatuation for their cause; the other party will be looked upoon as the big bad guy and its working pretty good i must say

if you want to understand this, you should go back in history
and i think that if you re not taking sides, you wont be able to say who is wrong or right that easily:)

"30 Palestinians for every Israeli lost"

30 scurvy dogs for every 1 of the chosen people
They should count themselves lucky

"And now in this war they kill another 1300"

was that 8 to 1300?
now thats a better ratio, god would be proud.

> NEM,   Ummm....TY...but Im sure the Jew hater, Skoe, knows what Im writing.

Oh, let me remember this one and the rest...

So that makes me a...communist left-wing jew hating muslim...right?

[edit]

Let me squash these rumours:
1. I'm barely communist. I am communist by heart, capitalist by nature.
2. I'm not left-wing. The term is stupid anyway.
3. I am not a jew. I do NOT hate jews. I will NEVER discriminate someone because of their religion (That includes Scientology and the more crazier ones too).
4. I am not muslim.

Oh, let me just say a few more before you jump to conclusions about those too:

5. I don't hate the Israeli people.
6. I would love nothing more then world peace...but thats obviously not going to happen.
7. I'm not against Obama, i just don't like people making a big deal over race. Was it such a big deal when Clinton got into office? He was white. Did everyone celebrate? No. Then by definition these celebrations are racist.
8. I do NOT believe in climate change or global warming. Sure, climate shifting exists -- and maybe we'll all eventually die out -- but for now its mostly natural.
9. Culling kangeroos is OK as a last resort.
10. The death sentence should only be used with cases of +99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% accuracy.
11. Miley Cyrus is awesome ^_^
12. To argue polticis like a child with a 21 year old is absurd.
13. Hamas ARE EVIL.
14. 9/11 is talked about too much. It was tragic, but what -- 4,000 people died? Well 6,000 children die every day. Who talks about them?
15. I support the Russian invasion of Georgia. The Georgian government should have been pushed out (no casualties, though) for what they did.
16. I support the war in Afghanistan. Best of luck to *all* coalition soldiers and civilians involved.
17. I do *not* support the war in Iraq under the BS excuses used by the  former US government. I *do* support the war when you simply say "to de-saddam the place".
18. I don't support the anti-gay and anti-female views of Iranians, Saudis, etc. -- but it isnt my country, i cannot force them to do anything.
19. I don't support the anti-gay views of at least half American states -- but it isnt my country, i cannot force them to do anything.
20. I think there is a rift between Aus and NZ that needs to be fixed ASAP.
21. I have no problem mining, enriching, and then selling Uranium to the US, China, etc. (Under the right treaties).

21 is my favorite number so i'll stop there. Should i go on? Or do you have enough to work with?

[/edit]

I honestly feel sorry for the other couple hundred million Americans that have to be grouped together with you and flint...

> The people of GAZA are not free of blame either for their misery.

So because a minority of people are extremists, the rest get death sentences?

You are a moron. And you can save as much space as you want, its still true.

No Skoe, you are a Moron,

No, BW, you are.....
No, Skoe, You are....
No, BW, you are...
No, Skoe, you are...

Tell me, is Moron your mother's nickname for you??

Skoe's Mom, says to her fat, ugly, smelly, stinking, Jew hating son,  "I told you not to be stupid, you moron."

READ....or are you an IDIOT also.

The People of the Palastinian areas voted out the PA, and voted in HAMAS.
You get what you vote for.

Dont cherry pick written words so you can twist one's intent......... ..umm...  Moron.

No, BW, you are...
No, Skoe, you are...

dummy.

BW, are you a Jew loving, muslim hater?

My left nut has more intelligence then you BW...