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Topic: Who is John Galt ??

I believe, as redundant as the book is,

ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand  should be required reading by every 9th or 10th graders in the US....or any other Industrial, free market country.


I can see how this will be a book the left would want to keep burried, and kept far away from a young mush mind.


It takes a child, raised in a communist country, to come to America, rise up and write such a prolific novel.
A deep and difficult read that should be done carefully and slowly.



For a class of young teens, Im sure they can spend 1/2 the year on this novel.



Anyone ever read Atlas Shrugged ? 
Your thoughts ??

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

South Park said it was feces so I'll take it on their word.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

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3 Reply by Cowmasta (edited by Cowmasta 13-Jan-2009 21:13:24)

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

> I can see how this will be a book the left would want to keep burried, and kept far away from a young mush mind.

Of course they would. She's a woman.

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

Ayn Rand is overrated. Objectivism's politico-economic theory of a small, limited government for operating courts, police, and national defense, is in direct contradiction to her otherwise full embrace of the free market system. If, indeed, capitalism, the system of voluntary exchange, is such an efficient method of not just production, but of /social order/, why would a free society require a State to subjugate the unruly mobs?

You're on the right track, Black_Wing, but you have to go further than this. Objectivism was almost attractive to me once, until I learned more about it and reasoned for myself that Rand's motivations were questionable. Reading about her life, and the sort of group dynamic that took over at their grand Objectivist meets, leads me to suspect she enjoyed having a cult of personality. But I digress, this is neither here nor there.

If you want an actual education deep-seated in economic theory and from a /non-fiction/ standpoint, I suggest /Economics in One Lesson/ by Henry Hazlitt. If you think you can take on something heavier, try either /Man, Economy & State/ by Murray N. Rothbard or even /Human Action/ by Ludwig von Mises.

You may thank me later.

Caution Wake Turbulence

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5 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 14-Jan-2009 01:01:15)

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

i think you over-estimate the public schooling system. i think if anything, the number of high school students who read it would decrease if it became required reading smile i read it as part of my reading binge junior year of highschool, it was so-so.

Acolyte's assessment seems reasonable enough to me, but i have very little education in economics, only took a semester of it in college, so i cant really recommend anything.

just looked, Acolyte was good enought o provide books that are all available to read online for free; very convenient.

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6 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 14-Jan-2009 00:58:14)

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

All you have to do is teach the student body to reduce everything to supply/demand lol, even a couple's bed. Did you know that a couple's bed is divided between supply and demand? ROFLMAO.

That got ears in my econ class.

Consider women depreciating assets. That sort of thing. A great way to love economics is to apply it to a considerable extent. Give everyone Freakonomics!

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

@ Avo..... Yea...as I read it, maybe 11th and 12th graders.....  the book is a tedious read for those that dont like crawling up w/a book.


@ Acolyte.

I think you read to deep into it.  Yea, I guess the book can be read to mean less govt. the better.....I believe the less CENTRAL govt. the better.....

I could argue....as a conservative, but realist, ..... that the chance of a society ending up like this stagnant regressive society is also not true.

After all, it is only novel.


What IS the point is, that to strive to be the best you can be in your chosen field.......is not evil or bad or destructive to society.
Its only those full of envy ....or....those that have no care what so ever to excell that are mocking of the achievers.

Is it so bad to want to be the best in your field, and be happy doing it ??

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

hey BW! how's life smile

till the end of time..

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

doing well....thanks.
Holidays w/a lot of fam.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

Heyyyy BW's back, I missed ya buddy.

You're just in time wink

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11 Reply by Acolyte (edited by Acolyte 16-Jan-2009 00:31:15)

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

Black_Wing: "I think you read to deep into it. [. . .] After all, it is only novel."

/Atlas Shrugged/ is much more than a novel to Objectivists, it's the blueprint for Ayn Rand's entire philosophy. The novel was her fourth, and final, fictional work, and the largest of all her writings by far. /The Fountainhead/, another of her famous works, was wrote partly as an outlet of her frustration with President Roosevelt and the New Deal. Her novels were clear expressions of her thoughts on many important political and philosophicial topics, this I guarantee is no exaggeration. Rand's published works post-/Atlas/ were all non-fiction titles and essays, further laying out the groundwork for Objectivism.

Indeed, there is actually very little for Rand and I to disagree upon when it comes to many of the basic tenets of her philosophy. Objectivism is actually quite compatible with my own worldview, a natural offset of the individualism at the core of the capitalist philosophy. But I do not endorse everything that Objectivism has to offer.

Caution Wake Turbulence

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

"
Ayn Rand is overrated. Objectivism's politico-economic theory of a small, limited government for operating courts, police, and national defense, is in direct contradiction to her otherwise full embrace of the free market system. If, indeed, capitalism, the system of voluntary exchange, is such an efficient method of not just production, but of /social order/, why would a free society require a State to subjugate the unruly mobs?
"

Capitalism, the system of VOLUNTARY exchange isnt unregulated in economic or social order. Economically companies need freedom protected just like people do in social order. if Economically, capitalism didnt need protection; Capitalism wouldnt work because Companies would build millitaries to enslave other companies/people and create socialism with each company being the state. i dont think theres a contradiction with wanting a capitalistic economy and social order, with limited government for courts, police, and national defense.

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

avo: Defense, security, protection, and even law are all commodities to be bought and sold; why are they not subject to the same laws of supply and demand as a cup of instant noodles? What separates the private regulation of force from, say, the private regulation of money? How can anyone argue the inefficiency of monopolies -- an invention of the State, by the way, not any organic feature of market economies as they would have you believe -- yet at the same time support a monopoly on force and violence? Why is the market so terribly inefficient at producing and allocating protection and insurance services when it has proven itself in every other industry where scarcity is present -- both as legally operating businesses, and those engaged in "black markets" or "counter-economies"?

Caution Wake Turbulence

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14 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 16-Jan-2009 03:21:04)

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Re: Who is John Galt ??

"avo: Defense, security, protection, and even law are all commodities to be bought and sold; why are they not subject to the same laws of supply and demand as a cup of instant noodles? What separates the private regulation of force from, say, the private regulation of money? How can anyone argue the inefficiency of monopolies -- an invention of the State, by the way, not any organic feature of market economies as they would have you believe -- yet at the same time support a monopoly on force and violence? Why is the market so terribly inefficient at producing and allocating protection and insurance services when it has proven itself in every other industry where scarcity is present -- both as legally operating businesses, and those engaged in "black markets" or "counter-economies"?"

answer to #1 they are subject to the same laws of supply and demand

#2 money is property, money isnt different then a house, land or a computer. force is not property. private regulation of property creates the highly desirable effect of efficiency, efficiency in commerce leads to better quality of life. private regulation of force threatens that efficiency.

#3 because with force and violence, we arent looking for efficiency.

#4 they arent bad at making them effiecient, they're bad because you dont want the most efficient. efficiency is a desirable attribute in commerce, not in force or violence. example, one factory that could provide all property anyone could want, would improve quality of life. one bomb that could destroy all of humanity would not. those would be the extreme efficiencies for commerce and violence. which one improves the world and which one doesnt?

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