Topic: What's the point of having a large modern army?

I don't quite get it, on a strategic level, why the US has a large modern army. So perhaps people in the military can explain this to me.

My thought is this. An army serves two purposes: to eliminate an enemy army and occupy a territory. The US army can defeat an enemy army pretty well, but so can our air force with much less expense. For occupying a territory, it isn't so good at. Sure a single US soldier can do more than a conscripted and less equipped one, but the equipment and upkeep is very expensive. Powerful armies today may employ well equipped and well trained soldiers, but having a large mass of them is impractically expensive. The US' army is large, but not nearly the size of the conscripted armies of World War I or World War II, where 20 million men may have been fielded by a single nation at any time. This small size, expensive army makes occupying several countries impractical, and reduces the ability to project military force elsewhere. This is why the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq is very expensive and there were complaints of our forces being spread too thin, whereas in the days of conscripted soldiers occupation would have been easier and less expensive.

So this leaves us with the fact that a powerful air force can eliminate an army from the skies just fine, and it's inefficient to employ such heavy infantry to occupy a country. Here's an analogy. Nobody would deny that knights were awesome soldiers back in the medieval period, but who in their right mind would have used them to occupy a territory? Sure knights could be better than your average peasant foot soldier at occupation, but using the knights for this purpose would be inefficient.

I think it makes more sense for the US to downsize the army, which to me makes no sense that it is the largest branch of the US, and rely more on the air force and navy. In fact, we shouldn't be afraid to use the air force in a ruthless manner against scum who dare challenge our empire. Level cities if we need to, that always works effectively. Our army should be primarily used to occupy strategic locations and for tactical missions, not for main combat or occupation. Furthermore, by accomplishing our political objectives using our naval and air power, we can eliminate our enemies more efficiently and with less cost, and enjoy more mobility. Our current strategy of using our army to the extent we do has opened a power vacuum by entangling our forces in two countries, and therefore reducing our ability to project force around the world. With a naval and air power centered strategy, we can get in and out and go somewhere else very quickly. Lastly, it's a lot easier to maintain naval and air supremacy than it is ground supremacy (e.g. you're going to know it if someone is building a fleet of aircraft carriers). Moreover, today naval and air supremacy can cancel out ground supremacy. So why the US relies so heavily on ground supremacy confounds me. If you want to occupy a country, it's a lot cheaper to use mercenaries and buy off dictators.

So those are my thoughts. Now I would like to invite people with military experience and a lot more knowledge on the matter to give their thoughts on my reasoning.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

> I don't quite get it, on a strategic level, why the US has a large modern army. So perhaps people in the military can explain this to me.

I agree. The Russians are reducing their large army now too -- and are actually going to focus on quality then quantity. Thats the future, i think.

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Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

"In fact, we shouldn't be afraid to use the air force in a ruthless manner against scum who dare challenge our empire. Level cities if we need to, that always works effectively"

Love it. Do it to Iran please.

4 (edited by Justinian I 07-Dec-2008 08:37:56)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

> sad sKoE )= wrote:

> > I don't quite get it, on a strategic level, why the US has a large modern army. So perhaps people in the military can explain this to me.

I agree. The Russians are reducing their large army now too -- and are actually going to focus on quality then quantity. Thats the future, i think.>

Well it pretty much already is, since very few countries use conscripted armies anymore. The US has the most advanced and well equipped army in the world, but it also has the largest army in the world. My point is that this is inefficient and expensive, and I propose that naval and air power are a better alternative as the mainstay.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

The expensive army is a requirment for victory. I agree with you that it doesn' make sense when managing the end game.

that's where nukes come in big_smile

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

You also need an  army to keep the mob at home in check.

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

Its too small for the multiple duties we have.  It can't handle iraq and afghanistan at the same time, apparently, and as for defending korea and eastern europe, it seems we've agreed quietly to forget about that.   

The west isn't prepared to draft its population into a wartime army. That was part of the reason the USA was considered a superpower, because our population was bigger than other industrial powers. That's how we beat the Kaiser.

Our navy isn't that big either. We only have 15 carriers and we aren't building more.

Our ability to control foriegn events by force requires an adequate army and we don't have one now.  We have the most expensive luxury, a secondbest miltary

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

the US only uses force as a last resort (with the exception of a Reagan & Bush I expect) the true power of the USA is that it can use its economic might to force other nations to comply- using the carrot/stick method.

when America's economic power starts to decline it will be interesting how this will alter.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

it wont decline,only thing that will decline are muslims cuz they keep blowing up each other

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

Its already off the table since we are unwilling to take the costs and unwilliing to divert resources

Millions of people think boats weren't available for katrina relief because they were in iraq

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

I looked it up,US is planning to build 3 new supercarriers right now.

The inmates are running the asylum

12 (edited by The Yell 07-Dec-2008 21:21:09)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

who'd you check with?  US Navy or the contractor?  I think that's dead, with a Democrat president house and senate

It's hard to compare the 1989 Army to the modern Army. Because while the Cold War army was 2x as big in numbers it wasn't all combat forces, one of the downsizing methods was to shove support arms like MPs and mechanics into the Reserves and National Guard.   In the Cold War National Guard untis would fight on the front lines.

But it had nearly 2x as many armor divisions and 4 airborne instead of the 2 we have now, and about twice as many infantry divisions.  The main unit of military deployment was a division, not a brigade.   And they were kept 2/3 strength, if the Big One started they'd put 1/3 newbies into the ranks so they learnt among regulars, instead of creating 100% newbie divisions.

Fact is your "professional" force is looking like the BRitish Army in WW1, a colonial force capable of beating up less armed and disorganized outfits but incapable of sustaining losses from combat from an equal force, win or lose.  We supposedly learnt from their troubles.  Not anymore.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

well the BEF sent to France in 1914 was very capable & superior to the German troops it faced. the slight problem being the Germans were moving a far larger force against them & the French army was falling back fast on the BEF's right flank.

incidently if you think the US military machine is far weaker now than in 1989 - the biggest change is the Red Army & Russia's position in the world has nosedived since then.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

The BEF was retarded, the generals were retarted in their tactics, this has been proven and if you dont believe me i'll give you links later cuz i'm off to sleep now.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

yeh well nots go into the history of the BEF. what im trying to point out is that u cant compare the present US Army to the BEF in 1914.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

16 (edited by The Yell 07-Dec-2008 22:50:22)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

BEF and the French in 1914 did not have the artillery to match German units, Germany forgot about getting enough ammo without rail to its armies in the fields to make that count.

Yeah, BEF won most engagements and retreated because of what happened around it in 1915.  BUT they couldn't keep soaking up losses and fillign gaps with Indian troops, that's why Kitchener started reforming the Army and calling for mass conscription

The German Army in 1918 would have kicked the ass of the German Army of 1914 division to division or corps to corps, by 1918 they had more MGs and more artillery than jsut riflemen

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

> also has the largest army in the world.

No, China does. And then a Unified Korea (If that ever happens, though thats another debate).

The U.S. has the most trained special forces, and the most forces equipped with current technology, though.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

Save money by focusing on navy and air force? Yeah, because our aircraft and ships aren't uber expensive. Good thinking!

China has the largest army in the world because they have the largest population in the world. They're willing to throw wave after wave at another nation's army to waste their ammunition. They've done it before; they'd do it again. What if we only counted the soldiers armed with a musket or better?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

A friend of mine who is in the german special forces allways claims that british SAS is way better trained then US special forces.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

Just how old is he? (Rimshot)

Which us special forces?  SEALS, Rangers, Green Berets, Force Recon?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

21 (edited by Gwynedd 09-Dec-2008 10:05:33)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

the SAS are a bunch of [w00f!]. there, i said it. what are they going to do about it? nothing. because they're a bunch of [w00f!].

22 (edited by avogadro 08-Dec-2008 14:15:24)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

in a more serious tone. a German solider would be biased in favor of the british SAS because their cultures are closer and what they would consider professional behavior more closely matches.

23 (edited by Schniepel 08-Dec-2008 14:41:30)

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

there are not many situations where a german would say something good about an island ape...

what does it have to do with age yell? he is mid twenty.
and i actually do not know right now which of those SF it was .

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

Was wondering if he had personal experience at the receiving end  which would make him about 85

problem with uber trained commandos is you might use them with regulars and then they fail to cooperate usually

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: What's the point of having a large modern army?

he has personal experiance from those trainings nato troops do together all the time.. i dont think he has experiance with actually being in combat with them.