hehe...

Navy ??  Construction battalion ??

I guess thats why you call it a "Rifle."
Thanks for your service.

Im talking about front line, combat units....

@ Fokker

What ever.  I explained myself, if you dont accept that premise.  Fine.

Its not debatable.  Its not open for dissection. 

Its my experience, and what I BELIEVE would have been true in my small unit.

You have nothing to compare with.....the only ingredient I was missing was actually having a female soldier under my command, or along side me,  in combat.   

All you have is a theory.

if i understand bw correctly, he said women -could- be the weakest link, but in a unit of men, they might be unconsiously seen as the weakest link, therefore, that chance shouldnt be taken on fore hand?

bcoz there arent many up for it to start with, right?

is that the key difference with other possible weak links? like a really young male colleage (there are loads up young males signing up), who could be seen as yr kid, or little baby brother, having allll of his life before him.

smt else:
Do ppl think that when soldiers are captured and tortured, it s worse when females are involved?

I never said a woman would have "gotten me killed", herself "killed," and/or anyone else "killed."

What you have is bullshit.  Im talking about FRONT LINE units.  Im talking combat arms.  Not some RAF or .....  You know what.

Never mind.  If you havent been there, you can not understand.

@ Tavius.

Yes.  I believe you understand.  As I said, I can only go by what might have been.
We never had a female in the unit.  I also believe there are plenty of men ready and willing to serve in front line units.

@ Nem

basically ..... yes.  Its what I was explaining before as well, with the "Your only as good as the weakest link."

Its the same in society, you hold the door for the lady, or let her out of the elevator first.....Females command a certain behavior, men another.

Your out drinking w/the boys, your language may be more colorful, than when a female is present.

". . .they might be unconsciously seen as the weakest link, therefore, that chance shouldnt be taken on fore hand?"

Yea....for me.  Yes.  Its not about being sexist or anything...I believe its possibly my upbringing, my gentlemanly like behavior.
If the boat is sinking....the woman and children go off first.  When the house is burning, make sure the children and woman get out.  A young girl and guy are in a car crash....take care of her first, or nature leads you to the woman and children first.

Its human nature.  Someone attacks you, the men step in front of the woman and children.

I think it is uncounciously human nature for men to protect the woman. 

In the throws of combat, in direct and possibly terminal danger, you want to protect the woman and children.....as in human nature.

"Do ppl think that when soldiers are captured and tortured, it s worse when females are involved?"

W/O a doubt, yes.
I believe if your unit was captured, and the capturing force were some sick, twisted bastards, they would use the female against you as leverage.

"How about we do X to her, in front of you, until you tell us your unit, units location, size of your unit, and its mission ?"
let your imagination = X.

A female in captivity is her worst nightmare.  Especially when your dealing w/a sick twisted foe w/ZERO accountability for their actions.

since human beings are animals, that question is kind of weird. unless you're suggesting humans belong to the plant kingdom. and from the opinions some have shown here, it's actually not that a long stretch.

we can all agree humans are mammals, can't we?

so for bw its cuz of his nature, mebbe younger/other generations/ppl might not deal with it that way?  and chances of women being the weakest link are the same as the youngest/dumbest/etc being the weakest link ?
from what i heard the gents didnt adjust their jokes /drinking behaviour etc just becoz there was a female in the same room / team,  and i can imagine that if she is "one of the guys", they are less likely to have a problem.
-----

>I believe if your unit was captured, and the capturing force were some sick, twisted bastards, they would use the female against you as leverage.<

i think they d do that as well, thinking she be the weakest link, or that they could trigger that ihavetoprotectthepoorgal instinct, if X were to be rape, then it is just as bad for a guy right?..
--------

hmz, why do you think that is the key question coffeeking?
when is the last time you ve seen "fairness" in warring /fighting, or the reason for it to be of some devine or intellectual cause?
the conflicts are always about getting something you want, or prevent the other from getting what they want, not agreeing on what is whose, etc, pretty much like with other "animals".

@ Fokker

You see why discussing anything with you is like talking to a 4 year old ??

The 4 year old is just not that smart, has little focus, makes little sence.....but, it is entertaining for about 90 Sec.  Then you loose all interest, and that 4 year old becomes annoying.

Why do I evan bother exchanging w/you. 

* * * *

[Nolio makes love to fish]

child.

@ Nem.

I guess. on all counts.

Im just trying to relate as honest as possible, MY position from an up close and personal point of view.

You just never know when shit starts flying, and one of those pieces just might have your name on it.

How about a novel Idea.

If you dont like the words...... Dumbassimus or DumbFokker........ Nolio, I think you better get more forum mods.  I would say they would be quite busy.

Also,.....havent we been down this road ??  Isnt it better to just edit, rather than be a comedian ??

That way, you look like your Moderating a forum, and not being a... hmmm,  an  X ??

you fill in X.

As far as capture goes if there is physical torture it'd be worse for the women in my view.  Now before I continue this is all stuff I have personally observed in the people around me.

The reason I say it'd be worse for women is because I have observed that men, more often than not, possess a higher tolerance for pain.  Note anyone wishing to bring up child birth that isn't tolerated pain in the way I mean it.  In a situation of continual pain I've found men can ignore the pain, or at least not express it, longer than women can.  Now if we take this to a torture scenario the women would cry out in pain earlier letting the person administering the torture that it's working and have them push all the harder.

Again this is based solely on my personal observations.

BW, i think you were right on, with this consideration: that you were talking about women in general, not every single one. what combat did you serve in, old man? i know its been asked before.

Fokker, i would never take the word of a pilot over the word of a line infantryman on this topic. /laugh, cry

ehawk, what mos? and you should know better...you're in the wrong department if you wanted to be a fighter.

I'd do it but I'd also double the size of our military and rebuild the support manufacturing, it takes too long to equip our military these days

But none of that will be done either

Id have all female units to start with

Face it BW. Anybody USA is liable to fight in the next 30 years, you're captured, you're dead. So the interrogation aspect is moot

@Elysian Thebes
The Navy doesn't call it"MOS" we call it rank & rate.  i was a BU3 which stand for "Builder Third Class". My unit is a defensive construction force much like the Army Corp of Engineers.  The Seabee are a "non-naval" classification of the U.S. Navy, were are offen attached to the marines and they protect us while we construct contigent operation such as airfeilds, 100 man tent camps, bridges, HAZMAT depots, Alpha Yards, CBR HQs...etc.  the only gunfight i had ever been in was a 5 hour long fight at the perimeter of camp moral(just south of faluja)