51 (edited by avogadro 24-Nov-2008 22:18:59)

Re: USA Superpower?

> sad sKoE )= wrote:

> Even Australia has more influence over then world then it did in 1944 tongue. The increase of influence might have changed, but so has the scale of the globalisation.


yeah, but when ships can move more and more cargo, you dont change how much a ton weighs, you add newer units of measurement, and when it comes to global influence, when more influence is normal, you add new unit, not change existing values. the new form of measurement is a hyperpower.

Re: USA Superpower?

Does the US have more influence on the world then it did in '44?
Yes
Does the US have more influence on the world then it did in let's say '84?
No

Lemming of Fountains and Eltie Worshipper

Re: USA Superpower?

> more influence over the world then the US did in 1944?

No, relative to itself.

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Re: USA Superpower?

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that 1944 is a terrible time to compare global influence, considering a certain war taking place at the time?

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Re: USA Superpower?

Whats better 1917 or 1919?
The past 100 years have had some pretty rough times in certain parts of the world.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: USA Superpower?

> sad sKoE )= wrote:

> Whats better 1917 or 1919?
The past 100 years have had some pretty rough times in certain parts of the world.


Granted, the past 100 years have kind of sucked.


But you've all picked THE WORST moment to use as a scale.


If I had to pick SOME year as a comparing point, it would be something in the 1950's, because there was relative peacetime.  But, essentially, this only shows that your "compare now to earlier" system is bad, because any particular date will have external events that mess with your comparison.

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Re: USA Superpower?

> sad sKoE )= wrote:

> > more influence over the world then the US did in 1944?

No, relative to itself.


what does that have to do with anything? it wasnt a supwerpower in 1944...

Re: USA Superpower?

"A hyperpower or omnipower is a state that is militarily, economically, and technologically dominant on the world stage. The term was first used to describe the United States in the 1990s, but has also been applied (retroactively), to earlier entities such as the British Empire, the French Colonial Empire, Portuguese Empire, Spanish Empire and the Ottoman Empire. The Roman Empire, the Mongol Empire, and Ancient Egypt are considered to have been examples of ancient hyperpowers."

"After the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, some political commentators felt that a new term was needed to describe the United States' position as the lone superpower. Ben Wattenberg coined the term "omnipower" in 1990 and Peregrine Worsthorne used the term "hyper-power" on June 8, 1991. French Foreign Minister Hubert V

United States Marine Corps
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Re: USA Superpower?

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> > sad sKoE )= wrote:

> Whats better 1917 or 1919?
The past 100 years have had some pretty rough times in certain parts of the world.


Granted, the past 100 years have kind of sucked.


But you've all picked THE WORST moment to use as a scale.


If I had to pick SOME year as a comparing point, it would be something in the 1950's, because there was relative peacetime.  But, essentially, this only shows that your "compare now to earlier" system is bad, because any particular date will have external events that mess with your comparison.


the past 100 years have far from sucked. the past 100 years have been the greatest in human history. no other century did we make such huge strides forward.

Re: USA Superpower?

> avogadro wrote:

> the past 100 years have far from sucked. the past 100 years have been the greatest in human history. no other century did we make such huge strides forward.



Stop taking my shit out of context!  I was only inferring that there have been a particularly high number of wars during the 20th century.  Jeez...

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Re: USA Superpower?

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> > avogadro wrote:

> the past 100 years have far from sucked. the past 100 years have been the greatest in human history. no other century did we make such huge strides forward.



Stop taking my shit out of context!  I was only inferring that there have been a particularly high number of wars during the 20th century.  Jeez...



As opposed to what century, i'd say if i had the numbers (I'm talking on purely speculation), that the last 100 years were rather low on wars compared to other periods of time, pacifism has grown to become very popular of late.

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Re: USA Superpower?

lmao

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: USA Superpower?

20th century was one of the most fractious ever

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: USA Superpower?

the USA is a superpower but one that is in slow decline & is by no means all powerful. just look at the Russia-Georgia War- the USA did nothing to back its ally.

the USSR collapsed not because of technology- it was due to economic stagnation, corrupt & incompetent communist management, poorly thought out reforms by Gorbachev which prompted the rise of nationalism in the various Soviet Republics- while Reagan supporters claim it was Reagan ratcheting up US defense spending that caused the collapse of the USSR the reality is that Soviet spending did not rise because it was already as high as it realistically could go.

the future superpower will be China. her defense spending is rocketing & her economy too.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: USA Superpower?

> EmperorHez wrote:

> the USA is a superpower but one that is in slow decline & is by no means all powerful. just look at the Russia-Georgia War- the USA did nothing to back its ally.

the USSR collapsed not because of technology- it was due to economic stagnation, corrupt & incompetent communist management, poorly thought out reforms by Gorbachev which prompted the rise of nationalism in the various Soviet Republics- while Reagan supporters claim it was Reagan ratcheting up US defense spending that caused the collapse of the USSR the reality is that Soviet spending did not rise because it was already as high as it realistically could go.

the future superpower will be China. her defense spending is rocketing & her economy too.





Wrong, educate yourself please.

United States Marine Corps
-Providing the enemy with the opportunity to die for their country since 1775-

Re: USA Superpower?

> the future superpower will be China. her defense spending is rocketing & her economy too.

China definitely has a chance. Same to with a unified Korea.

> Wrong, educate yourself please.

Take your own advice please.

> the USA did nothing to back its ally

This is a very good point.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: USA Superpower?

Imperial clearly thinks Reagan single-handedly brought down the USSR  lol

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: USA Superpower?

"Reagen says tear down this wall..... we better do it..... we dont want to piss him off....."

Re: USA Superpower?

> avogadro wrote:

> "Reagen says tear down this wall..... we better do it..... we dont want to piss him off....."


Thats what my german teacher always said. That the big man reagen had his finger on the button and he was gonna push it.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

Re: USA Superpower?

Reagan did want to confront the USSR as a foe instead of accepting the existence of a commie world indefinitely which was what the Democrats wanted

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

71 (edited by A10 04-Dec-2008 02:31:20)

Re: USA Superpower?

>the future superpower will be China. her defense spending is rocketing & her economy too.

http://www.finfacts.ie/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm
(In US dolars, as of 2006)
USA per capita income : 45k
China per capita income: 2k

China's got a long way to skyrocket.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: USA Superpower?

superpower schmooperpower.

Such discussions are playing with semantics.  The US was a superpower when it had almost sole worldwide military might.

Then along came the Russies in '49 and set off a rather large firework.   There was as someone rightly said, some sabre-rattling, combined with an awful lot of prattling.  Fast-forward a few decades and you have as many economic "geniuses" running Russia up until the late 80's as u have running our current financial markets.

The concept of a superpower is irrelevant in the face of nuclear weapons.  U can have as much cash as u want and as many sabres to rattle as u want.  As the US and others have known for decades now, all it takes is a small group of determined individuals and "influence" and "armies" are defunct - hello to September 11th.

China, China, China, China.  Wowee.  They've proved many times they don't give a flying monkies about the rest of us.  And why would they?  The longest running civilsation on the planet taking advice from puppies like the US?  I think not.

Everyone knows the US talks a lot of rubbish - always has, always will.  Their not alone granted, but bollox is bollox.

The difference between the 2 is that the rest of the world knows China can't be sweet-talked, whereas the US will take any amount of "aren't you guys just great, now show me the money" cos they just wanna be loved.  A rather pitiful trait, but glaringly obvious. 
It's only now they've come to realise that everyone just thinks they're opinions and knowledge of the rest of the world are as ill-founded as their sense of self-importance.

Don't get me wrong, I like the US and I like everyday Americans - having lived there for some time, I found hearts are generally in the right place.  It's the brain element that needs a bit of work.

73

Re: USA Superpower?

>The US was a superpower when it had almost sole worldwide military might.

>Then along came the Russies in '49 and set off a rather large firework.


I think you're forgetting the US wasn't a superpower until after WW2. We didn't influence crap until europe had been bombed out. Our influence came only as a direct result of the vast amounts of monetary aid we sent to europe to rebuild the destruction. That aid gave us a sort of power over the European countries, and the lack of mainland US destruction gave us an economic advantage over Europe.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: USA Superpower?

"That aid gave us a sort of power over the European countries, and the lack of mainland US destruction gave us an economic advantage over Europe"

1st half definitely good point.  Last bit is the single largest failing of America's attitude towards Europe.  Europe isn't a single entity that acts in the same way as the "united" states.  The word united gives it away.
European countries barely agree on anything, be it logical or purely belligerence.  They couldn't even agree on the best things about it to put on the Euro notes for god's sake. They're like children with toys.

In no way, shape, or form will Europe in a standardised form, ever compete with any current world powers.  There is too much dislike, mistrust and antagonism.

It would be in the world's interest for such a thing to arise, but will never happen.

And anyway, who wants allies like like the French and Italians?  One became spineless 70 years ago and the other 1700 years ago.  There was more fight in Gandhi

75

Re: USA Superpower?

>Europe isn't a single entity that acts in the same way as the "united" states.

By "Europe" I mean the countries on the continent Europe. I say Europe because it takes too darn long to write out each and every countries name.

Rehabilitated IC developer