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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

ok, i may be wrong about the payment of troops.. i just think i somewhere heard or read that germany pays money for the US troops. but i am not 100% sure if i am right on that.

I know i should not answer questions with counter questions but where do we benefit from US troops?
as i said in another thread before. I do not think its the russians i need to worry about. russia never attacked germany. and i am very sure russia never will attack germany.
now all other countries around germany basically are allies.
and funny that you mention france. german france relations simply are one great example of how things can change.
france used to be germanies biggest enemy. for hundreds of years. now since wwII things changed.
today you can call germany and france a big ally. in european meetings it allready happened that french president stood up for german issues while our chancellor was.. wherever...
just a great example how diplomacy can work and dialouge.


so now i ask you.. what does my country benefit from your troops. my country is surrounded by only friends.
my countries military is nothing compared to the US military right.
now its very unlikely that the US will attack us and if they would.. it woudl not matter if we would start putting 600 billion $ into arms from now on because no way we will be able to keep up.
its also very unlikely that Russia will come attack us.
same goes for china.

also. german military for sure is way behind in numbers. but dont think we are so much behind in technology.
if it would come to a scenario where it is likely that we are not surrounded by friends anymore i am sure we could build up some nice army.
but that will not happen over night.

now how do us troops stationed in germany benefit me? my country or my security? ok, they spend their money in german economy.
but no US soldier will protect me from someone who wants to do some suicide bombing in germany.
your troops going from ramstein to iraq, do they benefit me? i dont know.. i get the feeling they make more and more people hate the US. i see it happen in germany too.. we allready had germans going to pakistan for terrorist training camps. a horrible thing if you ask me. but where does it come from? and will US soldiers in germany help me to avoid it?
i do not see it happen.

and on healthcare.. if no one spends as much on healthcare as the US does.. all is fine i guess.. you just have to use it right then wink

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

> avogadro wrote:

> > Gladiator wrote:

> lol...your hate and stereotypes of people makes me laugh imperial tongue

BW, your hope will play out within 4 years..

just sit and watch... i really, truly believe obama has the personality, the smarts and the ability to become one of the greatest
too bad, he wasn't given an ideal situation, he really would've been the best if he was president the last 8 years...


Gladiator, i think i need to point something out to you. When people are asked who is the greatest president, they dont mention a president who has prosperity his entire term. they mention Presidents who faced serious obstacles. Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, ect.



offcourse, avo i agree
and i think Obama will join that list,
i'm just saying, i hope the situation was better so that he could implement some of his other policies, that probably won't be up there on the list anymore...
but in terms of leading when people need you, this is a great opportunity and obama has all the makings of a leader

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103 Reply by Golk

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

BW, this here is all futuristic talk and hypotethical scenarii of things to come.

In that aspect, your idea that he will be a disastrous president is just as much of guesswork as my take that he's a Reagan heir.

I guess (I might be wrong, I'm not suggesting I know what you think, it's just a guess) that your claims lay on Obama's past voting history and what we heard during this campaign.

My take is to look at it personality wise. To me, Mr. Obama is an uncommonly ambitious man, a man who likes to convince and emerge as an admired leader, a man who takes pride in his own image.

From this point of vue, he is less afraid of the challenge ahead of him than to pass to History as the black symbol of a leftist administration. He really has one thing on his mind at the moment, and that is to appear as the leader in months to come, reigning over the senate and congress and not under the rule of the Clintons or the democratic establishment. To do that, he will need to convince everybody that he governs from the center and he will do it. He knows almost 50% of Americans voted against him and he will use them, win them, relish at the political game to win allies and avoid corporate slavery and create his own non-partisan machine.

On a international level, it will be most visible I think. To me he will reveal a powerful negociator feared (rightly so) by foreign heads of state, he has a wildcard with the population and the press almost worldwide and will use it specially now that there is a lack of acclaimed international leaders. Talking with "enemy" regimes, it will be just the same except when a threat will be uttered, you'll know that it means that risk has already been pondered and that it will be carried out. That's why I told you I expect Lybia-style reactions. And they will happen just to prove a point.

In a nutshell, I think Obama will be extremely intent on what the world think of his rule. I don't think the US will much of a "better" country to our ultra-leftists friends around here (though it was not worse than any other power, 8 last years apart) below the surface, but the result will be a return of the US as THE world's leader and the resulting halt for new emerging powers. Obama the pragmatic, clever, ambitious poker player will prevail over Obama the conveniently leftist democrat senator.

That's why, to me, Obama will emerge as a new REAGAN "emperor".

And no health insurance coverage or taxes will cast sufficient shadows on that.

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104 Reply by Golk

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Btw, as a complement, I'd say Obama probably opened a bottle of champagne seeing democrats would not get 60 seats...

That reveals a lot, and I'd bet heavy cash it was a relief. We won't know before long, sadly.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

@ Skoe
No, because we develope most of the drugs.
Most of the new cutting edge proceedures....
Have most of the higher end, very good medical colleges and teaching hospitals.

You lose......loser tongue

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Golk

you said it better than i could ever have..

and without getting flamed by BW...

*applauds

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

@ Golk,  I guess you have been at the kool aide as well.

Again, how can a socialist/liberal be Ronald Reagan??

The President Elect ran on a platform of raising taxes, giving out welfare payments to those that pay no taxes, attacking small business owners, instituting bloated Govt. oversight/regulation, Continued bail out plans....etc.

What Am I supposed to think ??

He will slash the military budget, weaken our status of forces in the Middle East....Negotiate w/Rogue nations.....

He will not drill for oil, will not build nuclear plants, will not build coal burning plants, and will punish the existing coal burning plants.
Who knows where he stands on the Alaskan Nat gas line......

He will open the border, and prob support an amnesty bill.


Ambitious ???   

an avowed AMBITIOUS Leftist/socialist.
Who will load the courts w/Leftists WAY more volatile than Bill Clinton, and will use the courts to attack the constitution.


Ronald Reagan ??

Can you boneheads tell me, WHY he will not do all of these things that he ran on ??
He won the Nomination on this platform, and he won the Weak turn-Out general Election vs. a weak Left-leaning Republican....



TELL me Golk, w/o the rhetoric say nothing bullshit.....

You have said nothing.....
He will lead, and use his loosing voters, he will negotiate, he will  .... he will.....

Spread the seas, with a wave of his arms.
All will bow befor him, and fall in his trance as he gazes upon them.

He will defeat his foes with lighting bolts firing out of his ass.

He will wow our past wavering allies, simply by walking into the room and smiling.


Please.


He is a JUNIOR less than one term senator from Illinois that was HARDLY in the senate,
was HARDLY in any of his committee meetings...
and is HARDLY a man of power in Washington.

He is a Democrat, the leader of his much more decidedly leftist/socialist party.
And he has his allies, in the leadership of Pelosi and Reid.


I dont see any good here.....no matter how optimistic.

Stop with the campaign platitudes about Change and Compromise and Bi-Partisanship.....its all bullshit.

When the republicans are not Bi-Partisan, its because Republicans are NOT falling in line w/the leftist agenda.

I hope to see A LOT of that.
After all , that is democracy in action.
That is the minority representing.......the minority.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
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108 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 12-Nov-2008 05:06:54)

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

> Schniepel wrote:

> "you didnt read the rest of his statement. while our federal spending is $700billion, when you include state and Local spending its about $1.5 trillion.... and it still isnt universal."


u did not get my point..
i am saying that for 800 billion you can get whole universal healthcare for 300 million people if you do it the german way.
if you now spend 1.5 trillion it has nothing to do with national healthcare but with a blatant waste of money.


well, thats totally ignoring the differences between the US and Germany what about the insane percent of Americans that are obese?

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

sure its totall ignoring the difference in the masses of our people.
all i want to say is.. if you are allready spending 1.5 trillion a year on healthcare... and if you do it right.. there is no need to take big time extra taxes from your economy for healthcare...
just make sure the money is needed wisely.
and sure you can not compare americans with germans.. but honestlly do you think an american needs twice as much healthcare money as a german?

ow and yell.. you actually can get fake boobs payed by public healthcare if you can make the doctor believe you are mentally suffering from your small tiddies.

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110 Reply by Firewing (edited by Firewing 12-Nov-2008 14:23:58)

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

BW
"The President Elect ran on a platform of raising taxes, giving out welfare payments to those that pay no taxes, attacking small business owners, instituting bloated Govt. oversight/regulation, Continued bail out plans....etc."

the Reagan times are OVER

millions of US-americans already live on state-money: coupons for food, cloth etc. (like in World War 2 in europe, embarrassing), many have small jobs and pay low or no taxes. in former times they accepted it as the US-way-of-live. but the times have changed. many lived too long in this system, they are used to it and they rise their children in that system. the mass immigration of people from middle america (called "hispanics") formed a new strong group of people who have a very diffrent understanding of state welfare or the lack of it. their experience is not grown in the US. the US-population and society changed in the 20 years after Reagan. the white/protestant class who ruled the US for centuries is fading. the hispanics are catholics with diffrent ideas and views and they demand equal treatment and legalisation for those who are illegal in the US. so society and electorate are changing fast.

In Reagan times the US produced everything, now most products have to be imported. the US automobile industry, once so great, is collapsing. thousands of containers full of goods come from china every day. goods once produced in the US! when the containers are shipped back to china they are full of waste-paper! the US exports packing-paper to china and not much else. 1,9 trillion US-$ in state bonds are in the hands of communist china! How can u compare such diffrent times?! Reagan must rotate in his grave, if he would know that the son of his Vice-President and successor allowed this!

"bloated Govt." did Bush change that? after 9/11 the US saw many new offices, services etc., the nation went to war 2 times and each time the government was "bloated". when Reagan heated the cold war up, he "bloated" the government. bureaucracy never shrinks, it always grows. so if Obama "bloats" the government he will do the same as all the presidents did before him.

Bail out plans are the fashion of late 2008 in the world. if Obama would stop the US would benefit in the short run, but their economy (what ever would be survive the financial crash) would have to face a competition with companies full with state money, ready to defend and expand their market situation on the cost of the than weak us-companies. than the US would not even sell paper to china.

Regulations are good, the world demands for regulations and the US have to react. Obama needs concepts for his negotiations. the EU already made their move and Obama must build a defense, to block it. so he has to give something. if he would just say NO, there will be an agreement without the US and the financial markets will adjust. the once dominant position of the US is weak in that Bush-made crisis we are in.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

"but their economy (what ever would be survive the financial crash) would have to face a competition with companies full with state money, ready to defend and expand their market situation on the cost of the than weak us-companies. than the US would not even sell paper to china."

They only survive over time, 20-30 years, by preventing effective competition through trade regulation.
About the only time I agreed with Jesse jackson, he said we don't have free trade, we have managed trade...

"Regulations are good, the world demands for regulations and the US have to react. Obama needs concepts for his negotiations. the EU already made their move and Obama must build a defense, to block it. so he has to give something. if he would just say NO, there will be an agreement without the US and the financial markets will adjust."

PLEASE DO then we can get rich again busting that up

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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112 Reply by Skoe

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

"@ Skoe
No, because we develope most of the drugs.
Most of the new cutting edge proceedures....
Have most of the higher end, very good medical colleges and teaching hospitals.

You lose......loser tongue"


No, lol. It was a plan to give your entire country a completely privatized but fair publicly-available health system following the rigid progress of capitalism and the community-coverage of communism! Hoorah for skoe, the future supreme ruler of the Empire of Oceania.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Regulation and govt. involvement stop progression.

Its good the world enjoys the US Drug company discoveries, no need for R&D when the US does it all.

Lets socialize the US system....then what ?

Rely on France or Germany or the UK, Canada, ... IRAN !!  for the next medical breakthrough ?  For the next life altering pharmaceutical ??

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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114 Reply by Schniepel (edited by Schniepel 13-Nov-2008 15:10:39)

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

silly blackwing...
only because you dont care and are not intrested in what is discovered elsewhere it does not mean nothing is discovered there.
btw our pharma companies are free to do whatever they like... they are not a bit regulated by the goverment..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7726118.stm

here btw.. also other countries do science and develop new methods:)

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115 Reply by Black_Wing (edited by Black_Wing 13-Nov-2008 15:31:11)

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Dude, do you want to compare ONE item vs. the whole ??

On the whole, what country comes out with the most medical break throughs, and new drugs to treat ailments ??


Your link:
Shows a German Doctor doing a proceedure on a human to cure AIDS.

Unreal:


Here is the ORIGINATION of this PROCEEDURE:

Bone Marrow Transplant Timeline

1956: First Bone Marrow Transplant Using Related Donor (see also 1968): Dr. E. Donnall Thomas of Cooperstown, New York, performs the first successful bone marrow transplant that results in long-term survival of the patient. In 1957 he publishes a report of his work, which shows complete remission of leukemia by treating patients with total body irradiation followed by an infusion of marrow from an identical twin. Along with Joseph E. Murray, Thomas is a co-winner of the 1990 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine "for their discoveries concerning organ and cell transplantation in the treatment of human disease."

1968: First Bone Marrow Transplant Using Related Donor For Non-Cancer Treatment: This event is also advertised as the first bone marrow transplant. Specifically, it is the first bone marrow transplant for non-cancer illness, as the 1956 "first" is for a patient with leukemia. Dr. Robert A. Good performs the first non-cancer BMT on a four-month-old boy who has inherited severe combined immunodeficiency syndrome, an illness that has killed 11 male children in his extended family. The marrow donor is his eight-year-old HLA-matched sister.

1973: First Bone Marrow Transplant Using Unrelated Donor: A team at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City performs the first unrelated bone marrow transplant. The five-year-old patient has severe combined immunodeficiency syndrome, and the donor is found in Denmark through the Blood Bank at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen. The patient receives multiple infusions of marrow and, after the seventh transplant, hematologic function becomes normal.

1992: Xenotransplant

Come .......joust w/the master.
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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15273632/

"The procedure, ultimately unsuccessful, sparked furious debate over the moral and medical implications of cross-species transplants."

I chose this example because it was just in the news yesterday...

look bw. i do not doubt that the most discoveries are made in the US. you are for sure still the most powerfull and most scientific country on this earth.
but first of all that would not change if your healthcare will be nationalized...
honestlly.. could you explain of what you exactlly gona do to nationalize it?
are there any plans known yet anyways?

"Rely on France or Germany or the UK, Canada, ... IRAN !!  for the next medical breakthrough ?  For the next life altering pharmaceutical ??"

why should those countries, maybe besides iran, do not be able to develop new technologies?
maybe will take a couple of years longer.. on the other hand.. if the US would stop i am sure we would suddenly be able to invest more into science as we suddenly are able now to offer 400 billion euroo to banks but we are not able to invest a lil ammount of this to strengthen the welfare state... but thats a totally different story

in the end all i want to say is that there are brilliant heads all over the world..and even if the US health system would totally collapse there still would be discoveries made.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Oh WOW Paulson decided The Yell was right, investment was the key not having the govt buy up all the crap assets

buying up crap would take too long and impose artificial prices

Hooray

too bad he still thinks have Uncle Sucker invest in loser banks is better than trusting the market to pick winners

but he's only had a month, he'll come around to my pov in the end

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

>>To me he will reveal a powerful negociator feared (rightly so) by foreign heads of state<<

Unfortunately, nobody cares if he could negociate with you. Many of our enemies openly state that they would prefer he won. Do you think they wanted him to win for our well being?

>>but the result will be a return of the US as THE world's leader and the resulting halt for new emerging powers.<<

Unfortunately, convincing a bunch of fools that you will make for a "better" country does not make the US the world's leader. We would need a stronger economy for that.

>>That's why, to me, Obama will emerge as a new REAGAN "emperor".<<

Do you know who Reagan was or what values he had? If you're not misusing his good name you should explain what Obama values can be described with Reagan's name. And emperor? What the hell is that supposed to mean? He's the elected leader of a democratic republic for 4 years. Your use of the word emperor makes as much sense as your use of Reagan. Congratulations, you don't speak English very well and make no sense.

>>And no health insurance coverage or taxes will cast sufficient shadows on that.<<

Government expansion and increased taxes have an impact on the economy. The US will never retain its status as a world leader if it's ignorant people vote for morons who ruin the economy. So, depending on how the economy does, they could well cast shadows on Obama being seen as a great leader by any one at any point in the future.

>>He will not drill for oil, will not build nuclear plants, will not build coal burning plants, and will punish the existing coal burning plants.<<

He's openly stated that his policies would cause a large increase in energy prices. He sees this as a necessary cost of switching to alternative fuels (which do nothing for the environment, since no other nation on earth is stupid enough to elect leaders who will knowingly ruin their economy). But that's why his focus is on social and economic "justice," not prosperity. He'll give you more of some rich guy's weath, but not mention that his policies will inhibit wealth creation. It's not a secret. He's open about his views.

>>i am saying that for 800 billion you can get whole universal healthcare for 300 million people if you do it the german way.<<

The German way doesn't have all of the technology and advancements that the US offers. The German way leaves some people dead which the US system does not. The US system offers more options and better medicine.

>>well, thats totally ignoring the differences between the US and Germany what about the insane percent of Americans that are obese?<<

I'm not fat, so why would I care? In my country I'm not forced to pay for a fat guy's healthcare and he isn't forced to pay for mine. Do you have laws which dictate mandatory dieting and exercise for those who are "obese"? If you don't, those fat people in your country are being selfish!

>> but honestlly do you think an american needs twice as much healthcare money as a german?<<

I value my life. If I lived in Germany I would have died 7 years ago. I'd gladly pay 3 times the healthcare money you do if it kept me getting the BEST medicine in the world.

>>but first of all that would not change if your healthcare will be nationalized...<<

If you say company profits on advancements in their fields will not decrease with socialized healthcare then they won't decrease? You'll have to do better than that. Because it's not true.

>> could you explain of what you exactlly gona do to nationalize it?<<

Those of us who work are going to pay for the healthcare of all of those who don't. We only pay for a lot of them now; not all of them. It's a pretty simple concept.

>>why should those countries, maybe besides iran, do not be able to develop new technologies?<<

The why is exactly what we're talking about; we don't want to share the reasons they don't advance medicine as much/quickly as we do. Regardless of the "why," the simple fact is that they don't.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Actually I was happy to see that they WILL NOT buy up the bad notes, only purchase preferred stock, and get the banks the capital infusion.
That is a better way YELL, and yes it was you.

Schiep....IMHO..... I believe the free market spurs discovery.
The promise of profit drives investment, that drives profit.
If you have no profit, you have no investment.

You can administer health care on an even footing......all doctors get paid the same, all surgeons, all nurses, ....all patients get the same coverage....etc.

Where is the reward to develop new methods, new Ideas......
Investment in such risk/reward is only done for the profit.

Is that so EVIL ?? 
No. 
People get compensated by profit for good ideas/products/procedures, etc.
If the project fails, the investors are out .... but its up to the investors, who are out of pocket, pumping capital into the research...
They decide to pull the funding, or to continue.
They drive the research, stream line the funding, run a good balance sheet and tight control of the assets and liabilities.....

In Govt....you have a budget.  Then you have another budget.....then another......expanding growing, going no where.
All you have to do is convince the Govt. Weenie....who really has no clue.
Now, if you have a private investor, they will have a clue.  They will have people close to them, or get the best people close to them to advise and decide.

Govt. is going to do this ??  No way.


Germany is a good country.  But your socialism stifles your country folks from REALLY developing your best potential.
I believe this.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Socialized medicine means when I bust a knuckle changing a washer in a faucet, I better get a free cold pack and bandage, the attendant better be an MD, I shoud have an MRI and xray, I better hear for the 10th time about that "harmless" bump on my arm, I should get a free massage and fresh fruit cup, and use the pool and sauna aftwerwards. And the painkiiller should be harder than Tylenol and not conflict with alcohol. And be free.

Don't tell me the richest nation on earth can't cover that. Its a right. This aint east germany yknow.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

It'd be hillarious if it wasn't true.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

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122 Reply by Skoe

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

"Rely on France or Germany or the UK, Canada, ... IRAN !!  for the next medical breakthrough ?  For the next life altering pharmaceutical ??"

Bah, and now you take another direction. Think that the US is the only country making 'medical breakthroughs'?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies

Not even half of these 'Big' ones are U.S....So obviously it isn't all U.S.



As for Iran, just to point out, they have some pretty advanced medical research going on. They needed to, after the Iran-Iraq war, and have since developed it into other fields.
http://www.ijpr-online.com/



But this is all nonsense because its a global-effort. Each company does what they can to help, and in return they get a bucket load of cash from selling it.

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

that evidence supports BW in my opinion. The total amount of RD research spent is much more in the Us. $280,998 to be exact. Germany is the next and it seems proportianal to their population.

But lets remember, it talks nothing of the medical breakthroughs. It talks about money spent and i dont think germans are as motivated to make new breakthroughs as americans.

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124 Reply by Black_Wing (edited by Gwynedd 14-Nov-2008 09:00:28)

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

@ Red.....

[]

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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125 Reply by Skoe

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Re: Waaaaa The Republican Party crying thread.

Why would the government pay for that :S.


@Red_Rooster
It disproves the absolution Black_Wing was suggesting. Everything else is irrelevant.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

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