Couldn't hurt

Ok retards.

Go read the OP again, obviously some of you are stupid, and don't comprehend the fact, i wasn't whining, I'm pointing out a curious fact, that Democracy was created with intent of cultural backed Political, Philosophical, and Scholastic understanding by the mass. - A comparison between the Origins, and the modern practice, and how it can be seen that this is NOT how democracy was intended to be practiced.

None of you fat boys can sit here and tell me, we are using democracy as it were intended, and that Modern day people were the demographics intended by the creators of Democracy.

Also, none of you have disputed the fact, that through visual stimulus people are controlled, and in turned the "Democratic" Process is control, Culture is promoting laziness and ineptness, making it all the more easier for Politicians, and Bias/Partisan sponsored medias, to control the out of the Democratic processes.

Before that, gangs/family would hired to bully people into voter fraud, and voter fraud was so common that some people voted more then 20 times.

THUS DEMOCRACY PRIMARILY AMERICAN HAS FAILED.

Christ, i thought it was pretty much out there.

The issue isn't if it goes the right or wrong way, Democracy fails, it is CURRENTLY the best system, but it's competition doesn't really even compare, in turn it's still not being used as intended.

I'm saying either 1 of 2 things.

Using democracy as intended, which is IMPOSSIABLE due to the Cultural gap between Modern practice, and Classic intentions.

Or a systematical forging of a new Government with Democratic inspired power balancing, and one that span any cultural gap..

Because lets fact it, with Technology comes large changes to culture, and with the recent boom that will continue, our culture will become even more out of tune with understanding the Political mainstream, allowing for the populace to be even more mold able to any one person's agenda.

gladiator and selur i really think your posts are very irrelevant. I look at this post and i see imperial trying to make a valid point supported by evidence and here you are saying that he says this just because his candidate didn't get elected. You are making an assumption and choosing to ignore everything else he says. Read it and put some constructive input dammit.

rant mode off

I agree the culture is to blame. democracy is not to blame. When democracy was created people WANTED to read the newspaper to gain knowledge. People WANTED to influence their government and wanted to pick the best candidate. Right now we have strayed away from that.

The media also plays a big part in this. It is simply ridiculous how easily people start believing something. I was talking to a few of the poeple in my neighborhood before the election. I asked them who they are voting for. They replied mccain because obama was apparently a terrorist and a muslim. LOL Same way if you told a black person to vote mccain you could expect to get punched in the face. The funny thing is, if you ask them to give you a reason why they vote obama, they can't tell you anything because they are ignorant. So my point is...

Have a political test required before someone votes. A test to see if they know all the policies of the candidates first.

Good lord... you people are missing the Principle...

Look at the average Classical Athenian's Priorities and compare them to the average American, European or any other, The Jews and the Muslims are the closest to the Culture that bore Democracy.

These are not "ideals", They are facts.

Most Americans want to be rich and famous -

Commonly thats through

Professional Sports.
Acting.
Music.

Who many teens today say "Hey I wanna grow up, and be like <Politician's Name>", No kids are busy wanting to be in movies, or singers -: "I wanna grow up and be like Paris Hilton" (A Stuck up rich girl with no inclination of intelligence who only gained light after a visual stimulus, a sex tape was released) I wanna be the next AMERICAN Idol.

American IDOL? Your IDOL is a fat black man who can sing like a girl, Or a [gay man] who well.. sings like a [badly singing gay man]?

Why not Idolize someone who is trying to make a difference? Because Americans are retards with retarded Priorities, VISUAL Appearance is what life is about to them.
I wanna be in a Movie
I wanna Perform in front of people
I wanna Rap
I wanna Play in the NFL,MLB,NBA,WNBA,PGA

Thats the MAJOR <Major in relations to MAJORITY RULES>, Dream of the American Youth.

Not yet - I wanna Grow up and be a Congressman, or a Senator -

FOCUS on the topic, and not on your moment to make a moot point, that doesn't relate to the issue I'm saying.

DEMOCRACY was not INTENDED for the WAY WE USE IT.

Thats not my opinion THAT IS THE WAY IT IS

*Takes out crayons and finger paint* <-- Should i use this to explain it further?

Once he has a plan he has an ideology.

Selur, I think that's precisely his point: Athenian democracy was based on an elite of "qualified" people to govern, taking first into account the interests of the elitist few.

This is not a "pure" democracy, but he considers (Imperial correct me if I'm wrong) that this system offers more quality because decisions are made by knowledgable people.

Ironically, though, I don't see how this precise election went wrong from that point of vue, since the elite guy got elected, that a majoritiy of educated (graduated) people voted for him, and that the "joe sixpacks" from the populist candidate lost.

I agree with Imperial, though, our democracies don't work, but they never did. What's new here is the insane amount of money that helped "buy" the election and the jesus-like hype around a candidate.

The rest though (clear bias of the media, populist campaigning, lobbying interests, pressure to please allies in the government, etc) is nothing new.

The Athenian democracy was a flawed system, so are our modern democracies, because by allowing a "true" power to the people you have to fight on grounds meant to please them and not actually for what's best in an intellectual way. But there's just no way around it, unless you start making a difference between voters which then crush the basic idea of modern (and not so modern) democracies.

@ golk, that wasnt how the Athenian experiment worked, it wasnt based on an "elite"

All "citizens" of Athens were allowed a vote, the main difference between that and current systems was that the Athenian system was a "direct" democracy, the "citizens" didnt vote to elect representatives to make decisions, the citizens made the decisions themselves by voting.

So if anything the Athenian system was MORE representative of the peoples will, not less so. Exactly the same criticisms that imperial is using against current democracy could be, and were, levelled at the athenian example.

...

I really don't know how else to put my point into a clear light.

You guys are all pretty much right on the money, but your not even discussing the topic i'm pertaining too.

I'll try to make a flow chart.

Regardless of Democracy type, power of the executive rights is elected in one form or another by the people through electoral reconition by popular agreement or Majority rule, That being said.

Power is ANY Democratic Goverment SHOULD stem from the PEOPLE

People -> Vote/Elect/Choose -> <Executive, or Legislative Powers, one or a group of people to represent the constituent's (The people) interests, and/or Vote directly on Policies and Laws> -> <These people, or persons  run the nation with the interest of the people, as it were - in light of the Majority's Benefit as won by favor in election>

Thats Democracy in a >NUTSHELL<

Consider it a network of power, The people are the source, Free Elections are the pipe, and the Politicans/laws are the final destination in this network of power.

Meaning the entire "Pipeline", can only bring what it's source delivers, meaning control the source you control the Pipeline, and in turn all the power within it's network.

Which is EXACTLY, what i'm saying, MODERN Culture has made people VERY susceptible to influence, and that Influence now stems from THE DESTINATION, which Democracy WAS NOT intended FOR in ANY instance of Democratic Sovereignty

Democracy as it's more often then naught practice today.

<Hopeful Politicians, vying for Executive, or Legislative Power> -> <Through Use of Capital> -> <Use Visual stimulus, in medias, TV, Internet, Radio, Popular Literature[Magazines], Purchased with accrued Capital "Donated" to them> - <Influence in a manner that ENSURE positive reaction in THEIR favor, regardless of fact expose said influence to people> - <People respond AS expected to stimulus, and DO NOT research or posses to understanding to DETERMINE possibility vrs speculation, make a decision on who to vote for SOLELY based off of stimulus that has neither been validated or dismissed as fact, and without the self inspired need to know the truth of said influence make a choice, already MADE for them by the politicians>

Wonder how valid this "theory" of my can be on control of the mass through media?

Research Delta Airway, or any Airline's stock in Oct. 2001

Or Research the theories behind United Flight 93, and just consider the fact that how many opinions, and fears were created from the media coverage of these events.

You don't find it "Convenient" to have a huge financial meltdown 1-2 months before an Election? Each Candiate tried to use it to influence favor for themselves.. all control..

Democracy fails people if people can be controlled, the power they wield to grant Executive, or Legislative Power is also controlled, and is simply a Totalarism Government system, with Pretty Flowers, and Suger to make the people think they have a say in something THEY DON'T.

I bet if i was a doctor you trusted, because i constantly for years told you, i was here for your best interest, you believe it with out researching it yourself, and learning about me - I gave you a Cyanide Potassium pill, and on it is said "Motrin 400MG", and i told you to take later the night to clear your headache - Would majority of people blindly take it? Or would they research to make sure in fact that pill wasn't harmful?

thanks gladiator, didnt know it was mean for my post.

"just because they dodn't go with your ideals doesn't mean..the democracy is flawed...

means people don't agree with your thinking... simple."

well, if you think abortion shouldnt be legal, and its illegal, the government is flawed in your eyes. the more flaws, the more adamant people will oppose it. do you think people would oppose a monarchy if they agreed with the monarch on all issues?

Golk, I'm just saying that the Culture we promote now, doesn't produce the results that makes Democracy proper, Either fix Democracy, or Fix the Culture.

Either way it's a rough Job, and it's pretty Radical in thought, and even more so near impossible to achieve, i just wanted to throw out some food for thought, and see how many people see that same things I'm seeing, I noticed a few posts where in the right direction just not far enough down stream of the river to be at the same spot, and other posts are just altogether in the wrong body of water.

Everyone complains about money problems

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/alpha-consumer/2008/1/4/a-financial-makeover-for-britney-spears.html