Only a real noob would do that. I have higher expectations for even Bush.

Invading Iran would upset all the major powers in the world, because that would mean US control over the oil gold mine of the middle east, and no one wants that. It would start a huge and even more expensive proxy war than the one we are in now. It could even get to the point where other states will want to take the US down, leading to catastrophic economic consequences.

America could vanquish anyone. But it can not stand alone.

I think cooperation with Iran is possible, but only because I think their leaders are big mouths that would cave in without support from Russia (trying to curtail US imperialism).

As for our military. Today armies have found the advantage in being highly equipped, trained, and backed with logistical support rather than a mass of conscripted men. This has lead to a trade off of large armies for combat effectiveness. Though our armies are more effective today in the field, they are also more expensive and smaller in numbers.

It's possible to be imperialistic today, but it requires a very different strategy than using ground forces to occupy. It's a really dumb idea actually. I have said this before, I think fear is a great strategy. The mongols were able to do it and control a massive empire, despite having relatively few numbers. They relied on being effective in combat with their speed and mobility, and they completely destroyed anyone who stood against them. It's an amoral strategy, but it's the one that works when your forces are small and you need to cover a lot of ground. Another thing you can do, which we have been doing, is support dictators who have the occupying force for you .

Of course these military actions are inappropriate in the current political situation with Iran. Now is the time to release tensions and aim to realign the global distribution of power back in to balance.

you know that nervous breakdown ahmedinedjad had a couple weeks... I think it's budgetary woes due to the collapsing oil price

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:
> Alright, look... Iran isn't the hotshot it was a year ago.
Oil prices are falling.  Food prices are rising.  Iran's economy has been dependent in large part on oil, and now oil most recently isn't able to handle the load.
That means one of three things:
1: Iran will focus its funds on keeping the population happy, slowing down its nuclear program.
2: They'll do the opposite, and risk popular overthrow of the government due to lack of economic support.
3: They'll be forced to come to the international community for help.  And guess what the US and EU will want them to shut down in order to get economic assistance. <

4: They'll become totally dependant on Russia for more than military support.

Notice how option 4 means that nothing has to change?

If Obama is President, Iran developes their bomb and who knows what.

IF McCain is President, their Nuke Facility goes boom one night.

Iran is not Arab and probably won't mind liberating the sunni shrine of the Dome of the Rock by glazing it.

If you're wrong you won't have $2000 to spare

Sad to say our DoD under Gates and Adm Mueller don't even have the balls to shoot our way clear in Afghanistan let alone blast Iran.  All our policy goals with regard to Iran are negative; Iran not build a bomb, not meddle in the Gulf, not meddle beyond its borders, not sponsor world terror, and that means they can all be met by reducing Iran's economy and technology below a point where they can do that stuff. Invade schmade. And as Russia showed this summer, global opinion is like Mormonism, it matters if you believe in it.

Iran would NEVER launch a missile.
The bomb that would be used will not be a modern 100MT bomb like US tacticals.

The bomb we are talking about, is a bomb, given to some extremist group, blown up in Tel Aviv, or Bethlehem, etc.
A small, atom bomb type.

You think Iran would NOT do this ?

Did you really think the killing fields of Cambodia would total 2.5 million dead ?
Did you really thing Darfur would see 1.2 million dead ?

Did you really think, the Balkans would explode and see ethnic killing nearing almost 1 million ?

Did you really think Stalin would kill 25 million Soviets to solidify his power ??

Did you really think Hitler would send out his armies, enslave 10s or millions in camps,
And march off 12 million others to death camps to be exterminated ??

Do I think the LEADER of Iran, PUBLICLY speaking of wiping ISRAEL off the map is serious ?
Yes, I believe he is serious.

The Arab League in the 40's, 50's and 60's spoke publicly of wiping out Israel, and tried to do it a few times.

Why is IRAN any different ?

Yell's Point is......who is going to do what to Iran if they do attack Israel ??

Russia ?
France ?
Germany ?
China ?

who ???   Hypothetically speaking.  who ???

The US, supported by the UK and a few others...... much to the chagrin of their leftist, pacifist, populace.

"Iran is not Arab and probably won't mind liberating the sunni shrine of the Dome of the Rock by glazing it. "

The Dome of the rock is not sunni. It's a neutral muslim place

"And i know Iran is persian and not arab... But the countries surrounding israel are arab and in the case of an attack probablly Irans allies."

I think the persian - arab dichotomy is here not relevant. After all, it's the "arab culture" that's currently in power, and that one tries to minimalise the impact of the "persian heritage".

> Justinian I wrote:

> Only a real noob would do that. I have higher expectations for even Bush.

Invading Iran would upset all the major powers in the world, because that would mean US control over the oil gold mine of the middle east, and no one wants that. It would start a huge and even more expensive proxy war than the one we are in now. It could even get to the point where other states will want to take the US down, leading to catastrophic economic consequences.

America could vanquish anyone. But it can not stand alone.

Agreed.

I'll add this too, the U.S.'s currently military is stretched to thin to start a campaign in Iraq would require abandoning other operations, would could also have large Global effects.

The Bush won't touch Iran, and Obama's a [w00f!] and won't even fight a cat for the last piece of ham, i doubt he'd have the balls to stand up to anyone.

"Yell's Point is......who is going to do what to Iran if they do attack Israel ??"

Israel themselves can and will i am sure.. i doubt that any of the valuable nuclear facilities of israel would be harmed in your scenario.

"Did you really think the killing fields of Cambodia would total 2.5 million dead ?
Did you really thing Darfur would see 1.2 million dead ?
Did you really think, the Balkans would explode and see ethnic killing nearing almost 1 million ?
Did you really think Stalin would kill 25 million Soviets to solidify his power ??
Did you really think Hitler would send out his armies, enslave 10s or millions in camps,
And march off 12 million others to death camps to be exterminated ??"

Has in any of the above stated tragedies the aggressor known that his action will end up in nuclear winter over all of his country?
because i am sure israel would retail.

Funny.. i just read your comment in the thread about obama assasination. you make funny comment about it leading into obama could have hired them.
they said they want to kill obama. you do not seem to take it serious.
now ahmadiwhatever sais he wants israel gone... you come and tell me you for sure take it serious and believe him.
gosh in the end he is not even the guy making the real important decisions in iran.

I don't.

Europe just got wealthier from trade and farming techniques, which allowed an academic class to develop. Sure the academics got access to classical western information preserved and copied by the muslims, but to be honest the muslim intellectuals were just as lame as the scholastic intellectuals in the renaissance. They didn't even come close to measuring up to the Greeks.

The changing academic and intellectual atmosphere, in other words, was caused by the changing social organization and economic conditions of Europe. You don't have time for contemplating philosophy when you're either training for war or the clergy, or are a malnourished peasant.