• Soth
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Topic: The United States will never have universal health care

I were bein' talkin' t' a matey o' mine who is a pediatrician who convinced me that it would be impossible fer th' United States t' go t' universal health care.


Under universal health care doctors would become employees o' th' government, avast.   Not only does that have huge problems with incentive but th' biggest problem would be th' removal o' malpractice suits because government employees cannot be sued.   This would eliminate malpractice insurance an' th' attorney lobby would no nay ne'er allow that.   thar would be too much pressure on lawmakers so they would no nay ne'er get it passed.

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
                                          Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

How is universal health care workin' fer us europeans then?

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

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  • Noir
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

um soth, you can have malpractice lawsuits even in universal healthcare... we have it here in norway

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

i have a better question, how will we have enough doctors after everyone starts coming to the doctors for every papercut and sprained ankle

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Nobody bothered to recognize the stated conditions that

1. Health Care professionals would be government employees
2. Government employees can't be sued

Of course, that's assuming that 1 and 2 will occur.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Justin, if a Uni. Plan was enacted they would obviously allow for negligent actions resulting in civil compensation to occur, however the regulations of said actions, and to what end?? Who knows.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Imperial, true. I don't actually know if #2 is true, but if they were to enact it then they would have to do something about #1.

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8 Reply by Gladiator (edited by Gladiator 02-Nov-2008 02:07:32)

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

at this point.. with the next president
NOTHING
repeat: NOTHING

will get done, almost impossible with this mess we're in..

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  • Noir
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Justinian, i am saying that universal healthcare does work, cause matter of fact, his criterias doesnt hold true

LORD HELP OREGON

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10 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 02-Nov-2008 02:47:36)

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Noir,

Supposing that health care in Europe operates efficiently and effectively (it works), it does not mean you can reproduce the results in the US. Every country has its own unique circumstances, and Sloth's argument concludes that given conditions 1 and 2 socialized health care is impossible in the US. The way to dispute his argument is not to cite a European counter example with socialized health care and malpractice law suits because it misses the point. Instead you have to challenge the conditions he stated that obstruct having socialized health care in the US.

Those conditions are

1. If socialized health care, then health care employees could become government employees.
2. Government employees can not be sued in the US.

His argument is
1
2
___
3. Health care employees could not be sued in the US.

and

If 3, then influential lobbyists would gain sufficient political support to block it.

I'm actually not sure that 2 is true, and I don't think 1 is necessary.

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  • Soth
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

public officials have immunity.  not every government employee has immunity.  Doctors are smart enough to push for immunity status under the law if universal health care were to be introduced into this country.  if that concession was made an even more powerful lobbying group would push very hard to block it.  therefore it would never pass.

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

The attempt to cap awards for punitive and emotional distress met with huge pressure.  If govt tried to act as insurer without limiting its expenses then it would incur massive losses.  If it acts to limit losses then it loses support for government monopoly. Limits on services killed Hillarycare, it lost the left.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Sigh

As i described in a very, very similar thread by Justinan (get off the topic, you've been informed enough now?):

A system that works is private health care industry, under strict government control.

☑ Saddam Hussein ☑ Osama Bin Laden ☐ Justin Bieber

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  • Noir
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

simply remove the rule that government employees cannot be sued... thats bullocks

LORD HELP OREGON

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  • Soth
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

bullocks is bullocks.  lol that word doesnt make any sense wink its like saying whomps or DOH.

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
                                          Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Are you crazy? Allow suits against the government for poor service????

There's 300 million people in this country and that means 301 million potential lawsuits

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Kill all socialists - With rusty nails.

Problem solved? All in favor?

All opposed? *Looks around with a fist full of rusty nails*.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Yes, I think we're all opposed.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

why rusty nails? there are plenty of other choices.

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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Obama openly (in some circles) talks about how energy prices will skyrocket under his administration.

I don't know if he talks about it honestly anywhere, but he knows his plans for healthcare will cause prices to skyrocket there as well. He can try to control them with more regulations, but more regulations only costs the system more. If he causes some practices to stop practicing, that'll only raise prices more. Hello rationing!

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

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  • DPS
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Re: The United States will never have universal health care

Ok to address the points.

#1) Doctors would be government employees

- Unless the US government merely socialized health insurance as opposed to health care.

#2) Government employees cannot be sued

- Have to look into this one but I highly doubt it's that black and white.  I don't see any responsible government giving all it's employees carte blanche.  I can fully believe, and in fact expect, that it is not possible to sue the government or any government body as one would a corporation, but I'm thinking the employees are fair game.

You are correct that lobbyists will probably stop the socialization of health care in the US though I expect it to come more from the health care industry itself than anywhere else.  If universal health care is put in place then the people who own hospitals and pharmacies lose money.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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