1 Topic by lmperial (edited by lmperial 02-Nov-2008 01:20:20)

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Topic: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Now, since I'm just getting back to IC, i can assume this topic may have already been beat to death, or maybe it hasn't even been touched on.

But i want to give my opinion on it, and hear some debate or other (Preferably Military) opinions on this matter.


Now the claim is because too many "Skilled" Gays are either being denied or remove from active service because of there sexual preference and it's counter-productive.

First thing i look back to when i joined the Marines, and if i knew that people were allowed to be openly Gay in the Marines, i would  not have joined, and I'm not alone in this.

My first point is, i think the trade off is a bad investment - You will lose more potential "Skills" in the amount of Heterosexual's who will not join solely on the basis of open homosexuals in the military, then you would if the latter stayed reverse.

Another big issue, is i know there were gays already serving in the military chances are i met some, and was ignorant of there preference, as it should be the simple fact is gays can join, they just don't need to advertise there preference, as such no one will ask them.

To allow a culture defying condition as open homosexuality in the military, is inviting issues that WILL undermine good order and discipline.

I mean, i sit back and think.. what if i was living with a Marine, who was Gay and allowed to be open about it.. how disgusting, and worried about my own security would i be?

And for the openly Gay Marine, how worried should he or she be about there own safety? I know more then a few Marines who would end someone's life then see their "Beloved Corps" Tainted by Gays.

Those are Fanatical but there is more then naught of them. Killing and violence of those who are not like us is preached from the first day, and many take it further then intended.

My end feelings about this, it will seriously wound the Military, and cause unforeseeable conditions that could put a serious manpower struggle into the works, not to mention a horrible PR on the military for possible recruits.


Source (one of many):
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/04/11/2008-04-11_obama_ill_end_dontask_donttell-1.html

United States Marine Corps
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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Agree with you 100% openly gayness should never be tolerated in the military.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Some of the most elite and effective military units in history were gay or bisexual.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> Justinian I wrote:

> Some of the most elite and effective military units in history were gay or bisexual.



??

I think preference has nothing to do with capabilities, but the negative effects from openly advertising one's adverse preference should never be allowed, keep doing a great job, but don't tell anyone your Gay.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

I'm talking about the Theban sacred band, the Spartan army, and sometimes other Greek and ancient armies. You could improve combat effectiveness by having your military divisions full of horny gay lovers.

Of course, not that I think that should happen. It could be detrimental to morale given our current culture, but in a different culture (like some Greek cities) it could be very beneficial. Today, it would create divisions and mistrust having dudes hitting on heterosexuals, and that's an effect you don't want among troops.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

SPARTANS!

but

No one in the ancient Greek world was homosexual as we understand the term. Instead they practiced pederasty a form of mentoring relationship between an older man and younger man. As it was practiced in most Greek states the older man would teach a younger man a trade and in exchange the younger man provided sexual services. In some states this relationship ended when the young man took a wife. In others it continued afterward. It was especially common amongst athletes and coaches of all the Greek states and men of all professions in Athens. In Sparta, where the profession was war, pederasty may have been used to build bonds between soldiers on the basis that a man was more likely to die protecting his lover than his comrade.

Not many people know this, but I own the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. "A" he'd say; then "B." "C" would usually follow...

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Yes, which is why i said "a culture defying condition as open homosexuality"

The American Culture is becoming more homosexual tolerant in certain social environments.

However military life has no place for open Gay support, in today's culture, Americans would sooner kill a Gay man eye balling him, and making him uncomfortable when he is showering. - before he killed an Enemy who did nothing to him, and he knows nothing about.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Why would you be afraid of gays in the miltary, such that if you knew you would serve with some you wouldn't join? What is so scary about them? Would you serve next to hispanics? Asians? neo-cons? liberals? Why just gays?

That said if they are so scary maybe it would be better to only have an army force of them? Since they are obviously so tough and awesome that other "stright" men are afraid of their prowress and ability...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Fool,

We aren't talking about how people "should" feel, we are talking about how they actually do feel. How people actually do feel in the presence of x has a huge impact on decision making, and sometimes political decision making.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> You_Fool wrote:

> Why would you be afraid of gays in the miltary, such that if you knew you would serve with some you wouldn't join? What is so scary about them? Would you serve next to hispanics? Asians? neo-cons? liberals? Why just gays?

That said if they are so scary maybe it would be better to only have an army force of them? Since they are obviously so tough and awesome that other "stright" men are afraid of their prowress and ability...


First off.. please type some sort of intelligence..

Second off reread the post.

There is no fear of Gays in the military of them directly, only the effects of having them able to only practice and be homosexual.

Go to any base of any branch and you will NOT find Co-ed (Males and females sharing living space or rooms), because of the MANY issues it can and will cause both sides of the line.

As for fear - An adjusted majority of Gays who were openly Gay in the military would be fearing from their own safety, and yes it could go the other way as well, you could have a less physically imposing straight man raped by a more physically imposing homosexual who was sharing a room with him.

The reasons are countless, and I'm looking to get other Military - Aside from myself their opinions.

Your opinion can't hold very much weight if you don't know how everyday life in the military would be affected by this.

Which Ironicly enough from my Knowledge, Obama never spent a day in any uniformed service.

United States Marine Corps
-Providing the enemy with the opportunity to die for their country since 1775-

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

If you feel that having open gays reduces the amount of hetro sign ups then you obviously fear them?

Why would a homo-male rape a hetro-male? Do all males rape anything they can?

You say my oppinons don't count? But yours are bred by ignorance and stupidity.

IA: I am not really saying how it should be, I am merely asking why it is the way it is? There seems to be silly assumptions that any gay man automatically will try to get it on and/or rape any other man. This is a stupid, ignorant and moronic thought to have...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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12 Reply by lmperial (edited by The Yell 02-Nov-2008 04:45:02)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> You_Fool wrote:

> If you feel that having open gays reduces the amount of hetro sign ups then you obviously fear them?

Why would a homo-male rape a hetro-male? Do all males rape anything they can?

You say my oppinons don't count? But yours are bred by ignorance and stupidity.

IA: I am not really saying how it should be, I am merely asking why it is the way it is? There seems to be silly assumptions that any gay man automatically will try to get it on and/or rape any other man. This is a stupid, ignorant and moronic thought to have...


Are you stupid?

Out of Ignorance? Hey [kirk unit] I'm a Marine, if anyone is an expert on the subject matter between us, it will and is me.

Did, i say every Gay man will rape another? If i did please cite where i said that.

Just like not every Straight male will rape a female, but it doesn't stop Co-Ed Billeting from being non-existent.

I understand your stupid, it's obvious to see at this point.

But the issue here is the mass about of DIVERSE issues this will spawn, including but not limited to sharing EXTREMELY close living space with openly homo-sexual people.

I do not fear a man alive, Gay or otherwise.

I wouldn't have joined then, because at the time i was 17 - (Average age of a recruit is 19).
And my opinions on Gays were extreme then, extreme enough to overshadow my desire to serve.

That same mis-guided idealogical feelings are shared by the mass by those who look to join the Military.

If you can't see that then you sir, are either gay, and are attempting to battle a moot point in some sort of sad-failing attempting to legitimize increasing rights to gays, or your retarded.


I never said your opinion doesn't count, you can say your opinion, but YOURS unless you served closed quarters with a combat orientated uniform service, are as relevant as a baseball bat at a Gun club.

United States Marine Corps
-Providing the enemy with the opportunity to die for their country since 1775-

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

You miss my point as well, which is that the mis-guided homo-phobia you, and many like you, have is born out of ignorant and stupid  fear that homo-sexuals will rape you.

That thought is stupid, and does not deserve to exisit in any logical and intelligent debate.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Again you assume shit.

I said when i was 17, i hated <-- Hate is NOT fear. Learn to read kid.

That was 5 years ago, i don't have any negative emotions for Gays, i just don't care to know that they are gay.

I don't miss your point, because you don't have one your making your opinion be known, which is fine, but at the same time it holds no weight concerning this topic because you are ignorant of the repercussions such a dissolution of said policies would create...

You stated your opinion, as little as it matter, as far as I'm concerned your done posting in this topic.

Now lets hear from some others who actually have an understanding of the situation.

United States Marine Corps
-Providing the enemy with the opportunity to die for their country since 1775-

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15 Reply by Rin (edited by The Yell 02-Nov-2008 04:40:50)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[Flame.]

<parrot> there is also the odd  possibility that tryme is an idiot
<KT> possibility?
<genesis> tryme is a bit of an idiot
<Torqez> bit?

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Sexual behavior is choice, it is cultural.

There is no gene to have free gay love any more than Arabs carry a

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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17 Reply by lmperial (edited by lmperial 02-Nov-2008 05:25:10)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> The Yell wrote:

> Sexual behavior is choice, it is cultural.

There is no gene to have free gay love any more than Arabs carry a

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18 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 02-Nov-2008 05:54:50)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Fool,

But I feel uncomfortable in an environment with gays, because they will hit on you. They hit on you so much, you feel sorry for women who have to put up with horny men 24/7. I know because I have a gay friend, and he has introduced me to his friends. Not saying they are bad people, but it takes some adjustment to get used to being perceived as a piece off a**. Needless to say, I don't hang out with him or his friends very much anymore.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

I would NOT be joining the marines if open homosexuality was tolerated. Not only is it disgusting but having the strife of relationships inside the military would be a detriment on the battlefield.

If homosexuality were allowed the best comparisan we could make would be that of a male female army.  can we see the problem with that?  aside from females being physically inferior (i mean strength) to males there would be HUGE problems with conflicting relationships and sexual attractions. all of these things would interfere with the soldiers getting their jobs done.

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
                                          Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

You do not need diversions in the Military service.
HomoSexual men running about with rainbow ribbons pinned to their uniforms is a unneeded diversion.

Dont ask, dont tell is fine with me as a prior service vet.
b/t/w  Imperial, Thanks for your service dude.  Did you ever check out Am Vets (American Veterans) ?  Good org.  Im a post cmdr and state officer.


As a combat arms veteran, Last think I wanted in my fighting position at the age of 19 was a known homo.  Now that Im older, sure, maybe I can be more tolerant.  At 19, 20, 21, etc ??   No, not really.

What ?  Charge into that house to assist the pinned down Homo?
Stop the bleeding on that bleeding homo ..... what if he has HIV ?
Give MOUTH TO MOUTH/CPR on that HOMO in distress ?? .......................... Are you SERIOUS ??


As to trying to get a coherent intelligent statement out of FOOL....... why do you even bother trying ??
The resident Forum idiot is present only as an annoyance.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

This may sound a little detatched, but what is wrong with having gays fight on the front lines? The people we're fighting over seas seem to have an extreme phobia of homosexuals. So why not send out the gays? It will seriously freak them out!  Gives a whole new meaning to shock and aw.

Praise Kek

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

there are many armies that mix men and women tho..

LORD HELP OREGON

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23 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 02-Nov-2008 15:29:26)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

"I mean, i sit back and think.. what if i was living with a Marine, who was Gay and allowed to be open about it.. how disgusting, and worried about my own security would i be?"

why would you be concerned with your own security?

"
To allow a culture defying condition as open homosexuality in the military, is inviting issues that WILL undermine good order and discipline."

i think Vietnam was the first war where African Americans were fully integrated into the military. The same could of been said for integrating African Americans into the regular ranks, but it still happened, and because it happened, there is much more tolerance for them then there used to be. Allowing openly gay men into the military is necessary for such progress with tolerance of homosexuals.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> avogadro wrote:

> "I mean, i sit back and think.. what if i was living with a Marine, who was Gay and allowed to be open about it.. how disgusting, and worried about my own security would i be?"

why would you be concerned with your own security?

"
To allow a culture defying condition as open homosexuality in the military, is inviting issues that WILL undermine good order and discipline."

i think Vietnam was the first war where African Americans were fully integrated into the military. The same could of been said for integrating African Americans into the regular ranks, but it still happened, and because it happened, there is much more tolerance for them then there used to be. Allowing openly gay men into the military is necessary for such progress with tolerance of homosexuals.


Wow, where to start

>>why would you be concerned with your own security? <<

Why not? Who wouldn't be concerned being in Iraq, with 100 men all who have not got laid in over a year....
And out of those 100  20 are openly gay, Guess what your fire team, consisted of you and 3 other gay men were just put out on a recon mission into an isolated district of an Urban city. 3 Guns are fixed on you, and 3 Gay men are eyeballing you like a Pizza at a weight watcher's convention. Sure you could resist - And become a sad casualty hit by small arms fire "Right".

Same reason they don't like Females hold position in combat.

(Watch The General's Daughter).

>>
i think Vietnam was the first war where African Americans were fully integrated into the military. The same could of been said for integrating African Americans into the regular ranks, but it still happened, and because it happened, there is much more tolerance for them then there used to be. Allowing openly gay men into the military is necessary for such progress with tolerance of homosexuals.<<


The difference here is vast.. you can't compare Race to sexual preference... They were born black.. Gays were not born with Penis in mind.

No matter your opinion's being gay is not how we are designed to function, and you don't throw the influence of a broken human in with people who are very satiable due to the dynamics of there job to influences that can negatively effect their performance resulting in possible errors which can cause unneeded deaths.

And, MY OPINION is the moment the world even tolerates Homosexuality is the moment it's encouraged, I have nothing against those who are as long as they keep it to themselves, but it is not normal nor right, and to legitimize it, will turn us into a Rainbow nation.

United States Marine Corps
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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> twistedpuppet wrote:

> This may sound a little detatched, but what is wrong with having gays fight on the front lines? The people we're fighting over seas seem to have an extreme phobia of homosexuals. So why not send out the gays? It will seriously freak them out!  Gives a whole new meaning to shock and aw.

In modern Warfare there is no "Front lines" only "Hot Spots".

Regardless, as i said the trade-off is not worth it, you guys have to realize it's the masses of people who this will affect people who are currently in the military and very salty dog like.

And those considering recruitment, and are very young and inexperienced.

United States Marine Corps
-Providing the enemy with the opportunity to die for their country since 1775-

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