Right, listen to Nolio.

The goal is to invest in other people, not provide and pamper them.

No system is perfect. I love the idea of communism but it's impossible to execute =p

who won the debate?

Justinian isn't really voting for Obama the thought of it is amusing though

> vissertje wrote:

> funny how people here (who I guess fall in the category Obama wants to give a tax cut) whine about Obama INCREASING taxes, while McCain is primarily handing out money to the ultra rich.
__________________________________________

that is ignorant

McCain wants to give tax cuts to the middle class and to companies which employ the middle class.

Obama wants to tax the companies that employ the middleclass which will result in job cuts. and he wants to give tax cuts to the middle class which historically has used tax cuts almost exclusively to pay off debts, which wont help the economy at all.

<<@ justinian

dude why are you going to vote for Obama? from what iv read about you through your posts you are mostly conservative. This cant be about "bipartisanship" and other crap like that because bipartisanship is a complete lie.  even if you agree with obama on one major issue there are still hundreds of other things that the man will be able to affect.  he will levy taxes, appoint justices, block spending bills (or worse APPROVE THEM), and a myriad of other things on his liberal agenda.>>

I'm voting for Obama because I just don't care anymore. Because of the economic hit that has devalued my family's assets, my confidence in the Republican party has been extinguished. I am now really tired of their misguided idealism, and this was demonstrated with the debate last night when McCain really only reinforced what he said. I sensed that Obama was more intelligent and had more strategic sensibility. I can't say what he will do exactly, but it's a gamble I'm willing to take knowing that McCain is a faithful member of a method that isn't working and can't even defend his position.

> BC Cougar wrote:

> there has to be a middle class for them to get a break, and it is so much close to the rich Vs. the poor these days.
the middle class would have to make over 100k to be middle class these days and the average income excluding the ultra rich is less than 30k per year.
so a tax break to the middle class would include very few people.>>

$100,000? That's upper middle class. They are people who generally have professional degrees and work professional jobs, like doctors and lawyers.

> Gladiator wrote:

> i stoped reading all the other posts after this by justin
"I'm now voting for Obama"

SAYS IT ALL!!

never thought there'd be a turn around from the man who at one point wanted obama dead

good for you justin >>

Don't think I don't hate him or don't want him dead, I just hate the Republicans more atm.

"what you just said Inviltrist is not going to happen.  even under todays system people can leach off of the government.  I was working at a sign shop three years ago and the owner was a great man.  There was a man that he had met who was going through hard times with debt and unemployment.  so my boss offered him a job.  The man refused it because if he took the job he would lose his government aid.  to me that is bullshit and to think anyone is going to be successful in changing that loop and ending leaching is wrong."

You just need some rules. In my country if you are with out a job and you are getting government aid you can only refuse a job 3 times. Also when you are getting aid you can be call to do several jobs for free according to your qualifications, if you refuse you will stop getting aid.

to be middle class you have to be in the middle range of incomes, not just a professional, now days a 4 year degree is no better than a high school diploma used to be, and unless you work for yourself or on commission you will never see 100k a year.
times have truly changed for the worse.

> avogadro wrote:

> "
I was merely stating the system I would want in place, which is very socialistic.    I laid it out to show you that not all socialists want to give "free hand-outs" to lazy idiots."

if you're going to list a government that doesnt work with today, but only in a fantasy, why would you need any government at all? if all the people are saints, theres no need for government.

There has to be order for progress to take place.   In that ideal world, all of humanity would act as one machine.  Every person a different cog of the machine, all perfectly content performing their given task, with top concern being on the greater good of the machine they all are a part of.