Re: Hip-hop

Ne-Yo's new album is called, interestingly enough, Year of the Gentleman wink

The bad-boy image is tiring quickly, imo. And anyhoo, pretty much all other genres, rock, pop, punk, dance und so weiter all have their own respective arseholes, so I wouldn't just pin this all on one group. Furthermore, Gandhi went round in a tablecloth so your system of using clothing choices as an indicator of evil isn't all that reliable.

But, on some levels, I do agree with you. A rather unsavoury percentage of current mainstream Hip-Hop is characterised by "I have a nice car, I have intercourse with a multitude of women, I have a large penis, watch me shoot this guy". But not all.

[i]Tommy gun

Re: Hip-hop

by and large you may be mostly correct. but you'd do well to bear in mind that everything you stated you hate so much about hip-hop isn't true across the board. you just advocated death for a lot of artists who share your values and happen to be lesser-known (that is, unknown to YOU).

listen to Lyrics Born tracks like  "The Last Trumpet" and "Whispers" and tell me you don't think he has genuinely good values and a not-alltogether-ignorant-and-harmful worldview.

Sure most hip-hop artists are dogs. So are most people of most nations. Don't be ridiculously ignorant in condemning hip-hop for openly stating values (/lack of values) shared by huge portions of your own nation's populations. There are plenty of hip-hop arists who feel the same way you do about other artists. It doesn't do anyone any good to ignorantly state you hope they all die.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Hip-hop

Little somethin for my godson Elijah and a little girl named Corinne

[Verse One:]

Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice
I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots
I give a holler to my sisters on welfare
Tupac cares, and don't nobody else care
And uhh, I know they like to beat ya down a lot
When you come around the block brothas clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry your eyes, never let up
Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nuttin don't believe him
And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him
Cause sista you don't need him
And I ain't tryin to gas ya up, I just call em how I see em
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

[Chorus]

Keep ya head up, oooo child things are gonna get easier
ooooo child things are gonna get brighter [2x]

[Verse Two:]

Aiyyo, I remember Marvin Gaye, used to sing ta me
He had me feelin like black was tha thing to be
And suddenly tha ghetto didn't seem so tough
And though we had it rough, we always had enough
I huffed and puffed about my curfew and broke the rules
Ran with the local crew, and had a smoke or two
And I realize momma really paid the price
She nearly gave her life, to raise me right
And all I had ta give her was my pipe dream
Of how I'd rock the mic, and make it to tha bright screen
I'm tryin to make a dollar out of fifteen cents
It's hard to be legit and still pay tha rent
And in the end it seems I'm headin for tha pen
I try and find my friends, but they're blowin in the wind
Last night my buddy lost his whole family
It's gonna take the man in me to conquer this insanity
It seems tha rain'll never let up
I try to keep my head up, and still keep from gettin wet up
You know it's funny when it rains it pours
They got money for wars, but can't feed the poor
Say there ain't no hope for the youth and the truth is
it ain't no hope for tha future
And then they wonder why we crazy
I blame my mother, for turning my brother into a crack baby
We ain't meant to survive, cause it's a setup
And even though you're fed up
Huh, ya got to keep your head up

[Chorus]

[Verse Three:]

And uhh
To all the ladies havin babies on they own
I know it's kinda rough and you're feelin all alone
Daddy's long gone and he left you by ya lonesome
Thank the Lord for my kids, even if nobody else want em
Cause I think we can make it, in fact, I'm sure
And if you fall, stand tall and comeback for more
Cause ain't nuttin worse than when your son
wants to kno why his daddy don't love him no mo'
You can't complain you was dealt this
hell of a hand without a man, feelin helpless
Because there's too many things for you to deal with
Dying inside, but outside you're looking fearless
While tears, is rollin down your cheeks
Ya steady hopin things don't all down this week
Cause if it did, you couldn't take it, and don't blame me
I was given this world I didn't make it
And now my son's getten older and older and cold
From havin the world on his shoulders
While the rich kids is drivin Benz
I'm still tryin to hold on to my survivin friends
And it's crazy, it seems it'll never let up, but
please... you got to keep your head up


justin if you can seriously, in all honesty tell me.. the above lyrics portray something uncivilized
then you seriously need to take a hard look at yourself and straighten up smile

and Cloud, Nas has lost his touch tongue, all his latest songs are borrrrinngg, old ones are still nice though tongue

29 (edited by V.Kemp 04-Oct-2008 17:13:33)

Re: Hip-hop

I'm not a fan of Tupac and welfare carols. They're unhealthy.

Those lyrics do portray something uncivilized. They're a most base form of ignorance and misdirection. They're theraputic and unhealthy, only seeking to misplace blame for people's problems; they only contribute to the problem(s) they pretend to address. They're aimed at keeping stupid animals stupid animals. That's about the definition of uncivilized.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Hip-hop

what music do you like, lets see some lyrics from what you like... cuz what ur saying here is total bs

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

oh yes vkemp, telling women and people in general to never give up hope and always have self respect, and telling men to behave kindly to women is SOOOO daammnnn uncivilized,

Re: Hip-hop

> Fudged wrote:

> what music do you like, lets see some lyrics from what you like... cuz what ur saying here is total bs

now, there's a true hiphop advocate's request. assuming the music v.kemp enjoys has lyrics mandatorily. priceless.

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Hip-hop

you know what i mean (obviously dont) i was just making a point, that he was talking bs...

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

which he isn't.

what led you to the conclusion that his favoured music has lyrics? arrogance or stupidity?

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Hip-hop

what are you talking about?... why is it that im wrong? and hes right? what are the "mistakes" or the wrong things in those lyrics above? tell me... enlighten my arrogant and stupid mind...

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

you do have a short fuse, calling people stupid and arrogant for no obvious reason... do something about it... its pathetic

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

37 (edited by Lucifuge 04-Oct-2008 18:04:28)

Re: Hip-hop

i didn't call you arrogant nor stupid, i asked which one are you. the response is up to you. jumping to a baseless conclusion about one's interests, in this case music, is usually a sign of either arrogance or stupidity. though i must admit that it is mildly entertaining that someone who likes hiphop couldn't even remotely think of music that has no lyrics at all. so i think we'll have to settle for the latter option.

there, now i called you stupid. in case you didn't notice. go nuts.

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Hip-hop

wow, does that make you feel good? and who ever said i like hiphop? and not liking hiphop usually means ur old and fat... thats just the same as you're saying... it makes no sense... plus you didnt answer me, what is so wrong about those lyrics... why is v. kemp so right, and am i so wrong?

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

39 (edited by Lucifuge 04-Oct-2008 18:27:36)

Re: Hip-hop

so, in your estimation not liking hiphop equals being fat and old? and just before you said that, you questioned if you actually like hiphop? two options now, either you like hiphop but are trying to evade admitting it, or you consider yourself fat and old.

as for what's wrong with lyrics of a single hiphop song, did it ever occurr to you that people might be discussing hiphop as a whole phenomenon? here's a quick comparison: how many los angeles gangbangers dress like people in hiphop music videos, and how many of them dress like people in emo music videos? i'm not expecting you to pull a statistics out of thin air, but i am expecting you to think.

just out of curiosity: you are american, aren't you?

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Hip-hop

first: "and not liking hiphop usually means ur old and fat... thats just the same as you're saying... IT MAKES NO SENSE... " cant you read? im sayin something that isnt true to state that you made an equally false statement...
second: you're automatically assuming that i like hiphop? why's that? what does it matter what music i listen to?

third: what does the way someone dresses have to do with anything? v. kemp said : "Those lyrics do portray something uncivilized. The..." that was what i was replying to... so he was obviously talking about those lyrics...and nothing else!

fourth: still avoiding my first question? why is that im wrong and hes right? (and dont tell me you answered with the clothing thingy, cuz thats about nothing... and doesnt relate to anything that has been said...)

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

first: you said it's the same and makes no sense. you didn't say you don't mean it. people can mean senseless things from the bottom of their heart, and i'm starting to see that pattern in your responses.

second: well, do you? why would someone who doesn't like hiphop take time and effort to defend lyrics of a hiphop song? a pedophile would defend pedophile rights, agree?

third: would you say los angeles gangbangers are likelier to look up to hiphop "artists" than emo music "artists"? yes or no? would you say this has something to do with the image hiphop portrays? yes or no?

fourth: how about you attempt to answer the previous question and then we move on to this one, hmm?

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Hip-hop

first: are you serious? dont you understand that i was comparing a false statement to what you say so you could understand where i think you were wrong?

second: i find hiphop so so, ...

third: thats probably true, but does that matter, what so ever? to anything said before i posted first here?

fourth: my posts were only about the lyrics posted in this thread, that were commented on by v. kemp... i answered your questions, can you answer mine...?

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

oh, and NO, not at all, im not american... you?

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

i dont even speak english decently, but with this grammar, you prolly figured that out...

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

Re: Hip-hop

this really should be in politics... and Luci this thread was about Hip-Hop
Justin thought hip-hop is always bad, i prooved him wrong tongue

and Luci i can say the same thing with Bikers, i wouldn't expect them to listen to anything but rock, and they bashed everyone in their site
but there are many many other people who listen to rock but aren't bikers..now that's the same thing you're saying

just because a few people listen to one genre of music and commit said acts, doesn't mean everyone who listen to that genre of music do the acts that one group does
the stupidity to even think that is how the world works, is just beyond me..


going back to how LA gangbangers dress, they'll dress the way they want to,
there has been a time in my life where i've worn tight jeans, and then a time where i wore baggy jeans
i'm in the middle now i guess tongue but when i wore either fashion, i didn't suddenly overnight start killing people or start cutting myself tongue(accoridng to the stereotypes you've presented or those have been infused in my mind tongue)
back a long time ago, actually still the fashion was to wear ripped jeans, i used to have a couple of those, did you also think those people were hobos? or do you think i was a hobo when i wore those jeans? lol
it's fashion, changes every day...

Re: Hip-hop

exactly smile

" If the world flips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.. "

47 (edited by Justinian I 04-Oct-2008 19:20:15)

Re: Hip-hop

V.Kemp,

I admit I have no rationale for viewing them with contempt the way I do. I have reason for hating perhaps a majority of them, but in actuality I hate all of them for no reason. I simply dislike the values unique and common to the weak regardless of whether they are benign or not, and I desire to be as polarized from them as possible. You aim to be opposite of what you have contempt of, and the contempt is a motivating force.

There are exceptions to my behavior. If the weak by some freak accident discovered a technology that was very useful, I would have no problem adapting it to my purposes. But if such technology or value is benign or has a matching competitor, I am still going to hate it.

Nolio,

Okay, so some hip hoppers make good money, and some even give back to the community. That doesn't change the fact they still embody the values of the weak. For example, the fact that Bill Gates has a charity foundation does not change the fact he's still a ruthless businessman.

Everyone else,

I did not qualify "hoodies." I meant the baggy and dirty hoodies common to hip hopsters. A clean hoodie that you bought from your high school, for example, is in another category in my mind.

Polo shirts and jeans are one example of casual dress for civilized people. It is not the only one.

Hip Hop is a subculture, not just a music. I hate them both.

Zarf, in this case you see another side of me you never knew existed smile.

Re: Hip-hop

Lucifuge wrote:

so, in your estimation not liking hiphop equals being fat and old? and just before you said that, you questioned if you actually like hiphop? two options now, either you like hiphop but are trying to evade admitting it, or you consider yourself fat and old.

as for what's wrong with lyrics of a single hiphop song, did it ever occurr to you that people might be discussing hiphop as a whole phenomenon? here's a quick comparison: how many los angeles gangbangers dress like people in hiphop music videos, and how many of them dress like people in emo music videos? i'm not expecting you to pull a statistics out of thin air, but i am expecting you to think.

just out of curiosity: you are american, aren't you?

That really has no merit as the people who are most famous for the most gruesome crimes and murders in history were known to wear italian suits.


This thread really has no point actually. I think I've proved that you can't generalize hip hop as a negative and not have the same exact comparisons to any other culture or music. Frankly, it's just pretty much a matter of whether you like hip hop or not. The same way that nothing is wrong with science or religion. But guess what, people abuse and twist each of those now don't they?

Please don't even begin to start calling people who follow a certain culture of any sort ignorant, uncivilized, etc. because you don't agree with what they do. If that's the case, then direct those names at yourself. Something that you dislike doesn't need to fit your criteria of acceptable. It's the people who dislike those things that need to make adjustments to either learn to like it or stay away from it. I don't eat spinach. Does it mean that spinach is unacceptable in society? No. Just means I need to not eat spinach and not eat it.

Sex without the e is still SX!

Re: Hip-hop

In regards to Justi though,

He accepts that certain things don't fit with what he likes. Nothing wrong with that. Dislike it and keep on moving is what the ducky used to say!


*Not sure which duck said that but I'm sure it was a duck X(

Sex without the e is still SX!

50 (edited by Muppet 04-Oct-2008 21:20:07)

Re: Hip-hop

Hip-hop is just another thing that artists bracket themselves in when it is really just pop. Go back a bit and you may find truer hip-hop.
You'll get far more meaningful songs from other artists, like New-age ones for example, and generally, the hip-hop that its fans are exposed to doesn't really paint them in the best picture. About rap for a second; Those like 50 Cent going round saying: 'I'll murder him,' is, well, asking for a bad image from the general number of people in a nation who are civilised and good people in general.
The meaningful lyrics, again, I'm sure that they mean alot to whoever writes them. Though, does anyone else seem to think that most black modern artists talk about themselves directly, whilst white artists do it indirectly or about others? Maybe you could apply it to genres such as rap talking in the first person, rock being passive or to others? I know this is very general.


Was just wondering, if Ne-yo's sick of love songs, why did he write one?

"The true office of a friend is to side with you when you are wrong; the world will side with you when you are right."
"It is not just a friend's help that helps us, but the knowledge that they will unconditionally do so."