Schniepel,

So you admit you have troubled and nutty third-generation immigrant youth. And you are right there are troubles with integration, but integration can only happen with assimilation. Rather the west has chosen the very ineffective route of multiculturalism, which has lead to disastrous effects by polarizing society.

Now the only course of action for you is to expel them or suffer the high cost of caring for them.

Sorry to hear that hip-hop culture has been exported to your country. But don't think it represents American culture, actually it represents parts of our working class culture. Upper middle class culture, for example, is very different. We value hard work and education, and as a matter of fact think of hip-hopsters as uncivilized. We avoid them and build gated communities to keep the losers out of our communities. Also, when you hear of America's poor test scores, you'll find that most of them are working class hip-hopsters. We have very poor education for our working class, coupled with the hip-hop culture of being dumb. In the upper classes of America, intelligence and education are much higher. Sure, some upper middle class youth are in to hip-hop, but it's much rarer because we have different values and fear living like them.

Yes the American upper middle class is very classist. We call the police to remove morons in our neighborhoods wearing baggy pants and jerseys and are there for no apparent reason. We also keep an eye on one another's property. It's a very smart idea actually. Whenever we try to negotiate or reason with them, they get violent. So now the police come and kick them out .

LP,

Yeah it's badly organized if you accept parasites! As for low income workers, you can just give them a temporary work visa. It's when you let them immigrate and when they bring their entire families that a big mess starts.

Yell,

k.

"1.  What is freedom?
Freedom is the freedom to vote, if you want, or not to vote if you do not want to.
Conservatives and the Out of Iraq now croud, may stay home election day, because they feel they are not represented in this election."

It's only your duty to support the party that fits you. If you don't want to, you can cast a blank vote anyway. What is freedom in this discussion? totally irrelevant.

"Also, Elliot.   Even if only 5% of a people, from all over the country vote, this is a Large enough sample to be Significantly accurate when that vote is cast, down to I would guess, .5% statistical significance."

Bollocks. Seperate social groups have a general preference, just as you claimed before

"In otherwords, you dont need to FORCE you entire population to vote.  50% of eligable voters, voting will tell the story."

Again, it's only our duty. People have died obtaining these rights, it's only natural to spend 10 minutes to cast your vote.

"I can see bringing in a small percentage of the poor and destitute.
As long as they are law abiding and their children take advantage of a good LAWFUL upbringing."

Criminals lose the right to vote for a certain amount of time

My whole point is that America doesn't have protest-voters in the same amount that we do. Those voters are ill-informed, and are lead by the general polarisation that's been instigated by populist politicians. That should stop, not the duty to vote. It's an error in the system, it's an error in the way it's been carried out. The system is a way to defend our democracy, and in fairness it's 10 minutes on a sunday afternoon is not that much of a hassle.

I think you get it wrong blackwing..
I dont know if its same in belgium.. but i guess so.
you do not HAVE to go to vote. but your moral should make you go.
its you duty as a citizen to cast your vote. You will suffer no negative effect when you dont go vote.. besides that in my eyes you loose the justification to blame the goverment:P
In germany we usually have 70%-80% of the allowed people effectivily casting their vote.

"In germany we usually have 70%-80% of the allowed people effectivily casting their vote."

more like 40-50% unless i mised something

yeah communal in cologne was just 48% in 2004...

btw didn't know that the numbers are far worse in other countries...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Turnout.png