Zarf stop derailing it, thats a completely other story.

The republicans are not responsible for the current economy crisis, neither are the democrats.

But the republicas ARE responsible for bidget deficit and foreign debt

Now to this topic: The US debt doesn't actually do any harm in the first place.  I made this post in the other thread about the US debt last week, but the thread died shortly afterwards.

The US debt is constantly paid off.   How?   By financin' more debt.   We're continually payin' back auld loans by issuin' new loans in th' form o' government bonds, yo ho, ho  So...  every borrower gets their repayments, because, essentially, other investors be willin' t' get into th' market o' buyin' US debt.   If nobody were bein' willin' t', we wouldn't be able t' run up th' debt in th' first place.

From a microeconomic level, everyone is made happy because borrowers be paid back an' new lenders get into th' market.   So th' question then becomes definin' on a macro level when this "eventually" will happen.

Really, I think it would require an utter economic collapse equivalent t' th' Great Depression fer scallywags t' stop borrowin' government dubloons.   Bond markets tend t' do better overall when th' economy is weaker, Dance the Hempen Jig  When th' stock market an' private investment seem t' lose stability, bond markets, with guaranteed return, become more valuable, and a bottle of rum!   Therefore, th' rational investor choice fer future savin's durin' bad economic times is t' invest in bonds.    A Great Depression v, and a bottle of rum!  Shiver me timbers! 2.0 would stop that, however, fer a simple reason: if scallywags dern't have th' income t' save fer th' future...  they're not goin' t' save regardless.

Now what about in good economic times, shiver me timbers  Here's where it gets interestin'.
Prepare to be boarded! 

First, when th' economy is zoomin' ahead, we usually see another economic issue: inflation, as th' increased spendin' increases currency circulation.   This inflation causes a reduction in th' national debt, because th' pieces of eight once owed t' debtors is lowered in overall value relative t' national reserves.
Prepare to be boarded! 

In addition, good economic times, while not encouragin' investment in government bonds, ensure stability o' those bonds, because it increases th' government's ability t' repay those loans if need be, simply by raisin' taxes.   Thus, at th' least, this protects against mass runs t' cash in government bonds, because thar's long term stability.

In short, this threat just won't materialize.

At the point where the debt's negative impact is meaningless, worrying about it is... well... useless.

well i didn't make it avo, i just copied it from another site..

and is it my fault that the last president was a republican and screwed up everything?

and zarf which post of mine is off topic?

@noir:
the key for answering your opening topic is that left--right is a simplistic or simplified view at best to categories the political specter. The good old 2 or 3 axis would bring enlightenment here.

Next to that, I want to point out that "extreme-right" in EU don't have much in common with the largest part of the republican party. Or even with the "normal" right-wing factions.

why does it eventually have to be reversed?

there will be an end someday, it could be sooner or later, it is extremely likely we wont have to pay it off.

You're assuming people will accept to be held responsible. They can simply deny payment, nit just the average citizen but the government itself.
Of course then they would build brick walls around US borders and live like one big happy amish community. I think that's what avogadro is talking about anyway

/me congratulates Noir on his very subtle trolling

I'm not going to comment on this as these type of topics make up for probably 25% of political forum (by which I mean threads about American style of government).

well i didn't see your post, so i can't judge it but i was merely continuing the economic debate, i wasn't the one who started it, so i don't know why you pointed the finger at me
look above my post, other people had started the debate

and avo
" it is extremely likely we wont have to pay it off."
you're right, it is likely that YOU won't have to pay it off, but that is no excuse to leave the generations to come, your kids, my kids, my grandkids, your grandkids, a huge debt and unfriendly terms with almost all the nations -- do we not owe it to them to leave them a good functioning government and country?

The current measure of "deficit""surplus" is wildly off anyhow.  Since 1974 Congress has been looting all Social Security payments and writing itself an IOU plus interest for the next year.  This is like Pop taking $20 out of the cash drawer and writing an IOU for $21---and counting it as an asset.   If that is reckoned as a debt--and Congress will have to pay every penny of it out to recipients--there has not been a budget surplus since 1973.

Learning a lesson from the Articles of Confederation that preceded our Constitution, it is written into our Constitution that Congress may never default on a debt.  But when it hits the fan that will be rewritten.  One method that comes to mind is assessing a tax on foriegn-held T-bills equal to the amount of interest paid out--so our Chinese friends only get what they paid up front.

jeeze guys, do i have to spell everything out for you? when the end of civilization as we know it happens its not like we are all of a sudden going to have to pay our debts. all of our debts is going to be forgotten. infact it is like a 1 in a million chance that we will pay our debts off before that happens.

and we have been investing in our children since the dawn of man; we are whats responsible for us being at the top of the food chain, having easy lives where we can grow old while fat, lazy, and happy. the least they can do is pay off alittle interest on some debts.

Are you seriously comparing an individual to a government in terms of their relationship to lenders?

Individual can't pay a loan: Screw you, pay me!

Government can't pay a loan: Shit, if they go under, the dollar collapses and my bank is worthless!  Refinance!