• Noir
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Topic: American politics paradox

In europe, most countries have the choices between right and left, in teh aspect that rightwing support more economic freedom, less taxes and less handout, less universal healthcare and education. The left support more government intervention, bigger focus on the society as a whole, and more focused on supporting thoose worse off in society. In general ppl would see rightwing as best for the economy, but leftwing as thoose who will make life better for a broader part of society.

However, when applying this sort of thinking on United States, i find myself a little baffled.
When it comes to gvernment intervention and handouts its much the same, universal healthcare education and so on. But the paradox is teh economy. In unstable times economywise, ppl tend to lean to the democrats. I dunno why, but they might be seen as more responsible etc. The current republican administration has run the economy into the ground and the foreign debt is bigger than ever. Why is this?

And one more thing im forced to ask then is, what does the republicans then have to offer, if neither social equality or financial stability is theirs. And im left with a few core values such as minimal government, militaristic and religion. But i have to ask, if a democrat administration is what takes care of both the social welfare, and the budget, then im surprised the election can be this close.

In Europe parties with the same agenda as the republican usually have about 5-25% of the votes, while a party with an agenda such as the Democrats have typically 50-70%

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: American politics paradox

Republicans are just the populist "we are tough" party that thrives on cold war anti socialist sentiments. Imo they don't have that much to offer indeed smile

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Re: American politics paradox

"The current republican administration has run the economy into the ground and the foreign debt is bigger than ever. Why is this?"

I think this may be a freak occurence as I don't recall any other president starting 2 wars in his first term.  I don't know if the economy is a trend though; it may be the case that the Republicans normally do offer better economic stability and they've just had a bad run.  I know the Republicans have a lot to offer big businesses, tax breaks and so forth, and big business offers a lot to the economy, providing jobs, services, products and so forth, so perhaps that's the appeal.  Whether or not they offer anything to small businesss I don't know.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Re: American politics paradox

"militaristic and religion"
BINGO!!

for some reason, a lot of people think democrats will allow "terrorrists" to take over america... or something stupid like that
and religion is a big factor too, even though republicans don't get much done when in office for critical religous decisions either like abortion..

and Noir, don't worry the election isn't as close as it seems, the polls don't show newly registered voters, niether do they show a lot of people who didn't vote in some of the latest elections... --these people are perhaps one of the biggest chunk of obama voters..

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Re: American politics paradox

polls are shit anyways.. last federal election we had in germany predicted the CDU to gain like 46%.. SPD abour 25-30%.
that was directlly before election.. in the end both turned out to end up at 35%.
Polls really are not saying anything.

democrats will for sure make the US very communist country:D

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  • Noir
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Re: American politics paradox

Well regardless what ppl think about polls, elections have been close before, like the last two times

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: American politics paradox

the republicans are better for the economy, democrats offer handouts to the working class when the economy isnt doing well, so in times of economic trouble, the uneducated masses go to the democrats so they can get their handouts. also, Bush has tarnished the image of republicans quite significantly.

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  • Noir
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Re: American politics paradox

still the economy the last coupple of years hasnt been great. Major deficits, financial crisis, and now huuuge bailouts..

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: American politics paradox

the republican party has been changing quite abit and it seems like economically they are becoming more and more like democrats. most of the differences between the two are social.

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Re: American politics paradox

Republicans refuse to enact just about anything as a party.  Even Bush's tax cuts passed a republican congress with time limits, and guys like McCain voted against them.

Right now there's not much Conservative leadership in US politics, especially with this bailout.

Democrats are socially liberal, which means people lose the right to opt out of providing services on moral grounds and have the liberal agenda taught as the default in schools.  Democrats also want higher taxes and more spending.  Democrats don't mind a deficit if it pays for what they want.  They are also about bigger regulation and unquestioned power of the government.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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  • Noir
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Re: American politics paradox

The last claims there are sorta false Yell

democrats doesnt want higher taxes, they are just a way to finance spending on say universal healthcare. Lately republicans have been spending as much as democrats have, just its gone to warfunding rather than education and healthcare. The reason why the depublicans arent making taxes higher is because they arent financing the spending at all, they are taking up enormous loans from foreign investors, debt that future generations will have to pay back.

The budget was balanced with Clinton, its out of control with Bush. That trackrecord cant be forgotten, and it does show that democrats do lead a responsible budget policy.

When it comes to the power of government you should also take a step back and look at the new power that has been given to government during the last 8 years, its bush that has been expanding the power of government.

LORD HELP OREGON

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12 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 22-Sep-2008 16:10:48)

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Re: American politics paradox

lulz, the track record? using purely the last 2 presidents one happened to be president during a huge economic boom, the other during a recession; isnt that a little biased?

both of them want to spend more money of certain programs, republicans want to finance their increased spending by cutting spending on other programs, democrats want to raise taxes, neither gets done and we go in debt because the democrats wont let republicans cut programs and republicans wont let democrats raise taxes.

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Re: American politics paradox

KIND OF FALSE?  Clinton raised taxes on all income levels, including social security payouts and estates--and since his tax bill passed in April he made it retroactive to January.  Democrats ALWAYS raise taxes when they have the votes.  ALWAYS.

Clinton benefited from boom economies and a more conservative congress.  Clinton did not even submit a budget in his last 5 years, he let Newt draft one and then demanded changes.  I don't forget that either.

And I've said Republican does not mean Conservative.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: American politics paradox

also..i thought i'd add, facts and numbers don't lie
and numbers from previous presidents show, democrats do MUCH MUCH better with the economy
democrats historically, have done better than republicans in the economy..

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Re: American politics paradox

OK throw the numbers up

Reagan vs Carter
FDR 2nd term worst unemployment in US history, 23%
Truman v Ike?

where do you get this stuff?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: American politics paradox

Well Democrats and Republicans aren't much different any more, in practice.

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Re: American politics paradox

Every country has its own specific political environment. We can't judge one country by the political gauge of the other. I have lived in 3 countries in Europe and right now I am in the States. Every party comes with its set of features - and its own support people. What is 'right-oriented' in Central Europe is not the same here.

For example, the political structure of the parties differs. Some of my friends believe that it is simply that the Democratic party is not well-organized - in terms of searching for proper management. And then comes the rhetoric - city vs country cultural differences, religion, military pride.

That said, there is a certain misconception within US politics concerning differences between republican and conservatives. Notice what VPN said:
"And I've said Republican does not mean Conservative."

The differences between the two terms are very convoluted but - the important bit - is that they are not the same. You can't split the two, but while it makes it easy to group them together and many people do, the reasons people call themselves one or the other. Conservative refers usually to a social trend (traditionalist-kind-of), or a fiscal management (taxes.) Republican refers to the politics. Keep this in mind when you see discussions about it.

I am all-in on electrics.

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Re: American politics paradox

In terms of agenda within Washington and policy making - the two are not far from each other.

I am all-in on electrics.

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Re: American politics paradox

Hmm lately they are drifting further and further away.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: American politics paradox

I miss Ike.

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Re: American politics paradox

The Numbers. big_smile
from 1957-2007 (Av)

% Change
GDP per capital:
Repubs - 2.94
Dems - 4.09

Inflation:
Repubs - 4.5
Dems - 3.81

Unemployment:
Repubs - 4.21
Dems - 5.33

Federal Taxes:
Repubs - 17.97
Dems - 18.4

Federal Spending:
Repubs - 20.67
Dems - 19.6

Defense Spending:
Repubs - 5.71
Dems - 5.83

Spending(minus defense):
Repubs - 14.96
Dems - 13.77

Federal surplus/deficit:
Repubs - -2.7
Dems - -1.21


In every category except federal taxes, democrats have done better...

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Re: American politics paradox

how convenient starts right after many years of depression under a democrat and ends with one of the worst republican presidents in history, your time slot is alittle biased there.

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  • Noir
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Re: American politics paradox

its a 40 year frame ofcourse viable to dysfuntion etc, but it does again give pointers

LORD HELP OREGON

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24 Reply by windowsME (edited by windowsME 22-Sep-2008 17:40:38)

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Re: American politics paradox

Might also point out that inflation goes up as unemployment goes down - those two have a very strong negative correlation.
And, comically, that increase in inflation actually more than covers the margins on most other areas you posted wink

Interesante.

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Re: American politics paradox

Try posting rates?  There's a congressional report, next saturday I'l go look up the title.  It prints it out for each quarter over 50 years.

But yeah, skipping FDR and most of Ike is bogus.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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