Login is disabled. This forum is read-only.
Imperial Forum → Politics → "Anti Islam Congress" in Cologne Germany
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,577743,00.html
now again its prooven that far right parties in europe stand no real chance.
This conference was a huge joke. Organizers said 1500 people from all over europe would appear. in the end it turned out to be like 50 people who came. while there had been tenthousands of counterdemonstrants.
All those far right parties in europe (Flams Belaang, FP
Avast, it not be Pirate Day! Blast that unprovoked Piratey speak!
The germans are probably the most anti-nazi people in Europe. Really like that in our neighbours. Netherlands are getting worse and worse with many people actually applauding politicians who blame everything on Islam, and who say all muslims are scum and stuff like that.
Blast the cannons, this be a proud day to be european.
what i find remarkable about this is not that tenthousands of counterprotestors came.. its more remarkable that only 50 nazis made it to appear.
rightwing populism is a trend. they get many many votes of people who are not satisfied with the current goverment. they do not get a lot of votes from people who totally sympathise with their agenda.
most of the time they depend on 1 populist leader (Le Pen in France, Haider in Austria, Pim Fortuine a while ago in the netherlands).
If people would actually start thinking about politics instead of listening and judging on rethorics such parties would not stand a chance.
Schniepel
u gotta teach BW, justin, einstein and yell on here..a lil sum 
what exactly was the position of this so called, "Anti-Islam" forum/gathering ??
Im not sure exactly what you are getting at Schneip or what Gladiator is celebrating ??
Can you post here the position of this group/gathering ??
It would seem, Schiep, by just reading your post, you wrote:
"Organizers said 1500 people from all over Europe would appear"
1500 ?? Seems like a gathering of some minority group that does NOT represent conservative issues.
Seems like this was a gathering of anti-Islamists, or Anti-[any group].
Maybe, if it was an Anti-Jew gathering, it would have had more participation ??
Im glad it failed as well, because here in America .... It would not even have been common knowledge such a gathering.
again balckwing..
i did not talk about conservatives.. dont know why you bring it in here now. i was talking about "far right populists".
maybe its european buisness but here we have those small parties popping up in almost every country.
they get quiet good numbers at elections.
now this was about that we should not be worried.. the numbers in elections do not represent the general believe in the population.
this conference was about setting a plan to fight the "creeping islamination" of europe.
they probablly chose cologne because in cologne we will now build germanys biggest mosque which was quiet controversal (that group pro cologne got its origin there).
now.. i can not tell u any details what they wanted to plan because they probablly did not have a plan themselves..
they are only populists not really having an agenda.
i was just being happy that their believe are not common sense and that the inhabitants of cologne have the power to mobilize masses to protest against them.
tens of thousands of people protesting against those far right populist simply is a sign they are not wanted.
the world could need more such signs.
about jews.. sensible topic blackwing.. probablly the same 50 sad people would have shown up that showed up here.
if it would had been an anti american gathering.. probablly hundreds of thousands.
well shows the difference between euros and Us again. You would not recognize such a gathering at all.. here the people stand up to show such a meeting is not wanted. up to you what you prefer.. i prefer what happened here.
"if it would had been an anti American gathering.. probably hundreds of thousands."
that would be sad. Even if you're 100% against their current gov actions or whatever bothers you how can you be anti-American? That puts you in one line with those 50 losers for me.
Nazis in america are not very wanted but to little a groop to protest against
"i did not talk about conservatives.. dont know why you bring it in here now. i was talking about "far right populists"."
"pro cologne" calls itself conservative and claims to represent conservative issues and the silent marority of the people...
but liken noone believes that.
This in a continent that won't run cartoons of Muhammed because it would lead to bombings...
Paul.. my comment was not 100% serious.. i just felt a lil provocated by bw mentioning the jew thing implicating all germans are nazis. (which he himself probablly knows is not true).
if anyone felt offened by it.. my appologize.
Still... if you would make a protest against the bush administration many many people would come.
That's good news, and in a recent poll, our extreme right-wing-nearly-fascist-but-defenatly-racist-party Vlaams belang is losing votes. A research was done in Belgium about what social groups voted for wich party, and it's indeed true that these near-fascists gather most of their votes from people on unemployed people, the less-paid working class, protest voters and so on (basicly people who have no idea what exactly a party stands for and without a clue of the 'political landscape')
"1500 ?? Seems like a gathering of some minority group that does NOT represent conservative issues."
That doesn't mean they don't get a lot of support. I know Vlaams Belang holds a little less then 20% of the votes (making it the 2nd largest party in Belgium in the last elections), so there actually is a problem.
"Nazis in america are not very wanted but to little a groop to protest against"
There's little difference between Nazis and several organisations like stormfront, the KKK and other pro-segregation movements, who do seem to have found a voice in America..
"if you would make a protest against the bush administration many many people would come"
That's not the same as anti-American.
I think the name "far-right" is wrongly chosen. Because they have little to do with most parties who proclaim to be to the right-wing side or say to be conservative. If you look closer, you see how little pov they really share. Nazi's is a better term. And I'm glad as well they don't have many followers showing up, here and in the US.
the only "Segregation" groups with a voice are the Black Activist groups.
In the US....the KKK, the White Supremacists or Nazis are non existent.
They dont even make a percentile in the voting blocks.
Now...... Schneip...... The Anti-Jew remark was for the Anti-Islamic Anti-anything example.
YOU are the one that was "Surprised" only 50 showed up.
Why is this a surprise ?
A Few others write in here that these WACKO fringe groups actually garner measurable support ??
Hell, in the US, AGAIN....they dont even get the attention to need a MASS anti-Demonstration.
Though..... I would agree, an Anti-US rally or meeting would have a mass group......probably that same group of demonstrators would be there to decry the US.....
...so I agree w/you Schneip. NOR would I be surprised.
Guess what. Have an Anti-Germany or Anti-French or Anti-EU meet in the US ??
the Same non-interest the Nazis would garner.
To your right-wing Populist movement. Populist as in popular or actually politically important was what I thought you were getting at. I am a right-winger in my country.
Another point.......
Funny:
This was written:
"A research was done in Belgium about what social groups voted for which party, and it's indeed true that these near-fascists gather most of their votes from people on unemployed people, the less-paid working class, protest voters and so on (basically people who have no idea what exactly a party stands for and without a clue of the 'political landscape'"
> > > Most of their support from the unemployed, less-paid, protest voters and so on. . ."
This sounds like the American Democrats...... Socialists hiding in the Democrat party, rallying the down trodden and the under-appreciated.
Accept they also have the Hollywood and Media Elite, and Academia on their side in the US.
There's a difference BW. Everyone's obliged to vote over here, while it's optional for you. Many people who aren't interested just don't show up. So there aren't that many protest voters.
Eh,
Islam isn't a problem. It's uncontrolled immigration of parasitic underclass scum.
In other words, immigration needs to be carefully regulated to guarantee that people are admitted not on the basis of pity, but on their usefulness to the economy and ability to adapt within the society they are immigrating to.
For example, I don't mind if English-speaking doctors from Mexico want to immigrate and work in the US, what I do mind is immigration from underclass people from Mexico who end up being parasites to the tax payer.
The problem with Europe is a hypersensitive empathy. You guys want to go help people and save the world, and that is leading to your downfall.
parasitic underclass scum lol.. you sound like those sad populists now.
why is underclass scum? explain please.
People who immigrate without essential skills for an industrial economy, and then live off state handouts in slum communities.
It happens a lot in the US.
Allow me to translate that from Justinian to "Person with a soul." 
(Just playin, you know I love ya!)
Since nations have limitations, be it geographic, demographic, or economic, that prevent them from taking in every person in the world, they have to limit the amount of immigration. In addition, obvious security concerns mean governments would wish to prevent completely open borders. So a nation must choose between people, rather than accept everyone.
So the question becomes one of how to choose who enters the country.
Since any individual becomes a shared burden (social services, use of public goods) and contribution (taxes, work) to a society, it's in the nation's best interests to prefer taking in individuals who give the greatest contribution to the society, to mitigate their burden. From there, it becomes simple mathematics: If one person has a potential to accrue $100,000 per year or fill a highly demanded niche (i.e., a scientist, teacher, doctor), such a person should be preferred over an unskilled person since the former has a greater probability to cover their costs. By accepting individuals who are less likely to cover their social costs, the nation doesn't reap the benefits of the immigration.
Even accepting unskilled, yet highly sought-after, immigrants probably isn't enough. Every new entrant into a labor market increases the supply of labor in a field, reducing the value of that labor, along with all other workers in the field. Unskilled work uniquely has the quality of being simple for people to enter in case a shortage does occur. For example, if every plumber except for one guy disappeared suddenly, new plumbers could, and would, enter the field easily, because the work isn't that complicated.
This is untrue of fields such as medicine, making immigrants in such fields highly sought after. Therefore, we should court them above unskilled labor, because it's simply efficient to do so.
Zarf,
My point exactly. That and selection criteria for immigration in Europe is too liberal and costly.
yeah i got your point but still no need to call any group parasitic underclass scum.. that sounds kind of... like you would be the bigest asshole in the world lol.
now i have to ask you though.. do you have any idea about imigration in europe? to you think everyone who come here will become a german and benefit our glorious welfare state?
saying unemployment comes from all those imigrants is exactlly that populist bullshit pro cologne and flaams belaang and whoever is saying. unfortunatlly many people believe it.. even if numbers show its totally not the case.
Problem is education.. and the decline of our societies values.
Most people those populist complain about are (in germany) turkish.
now everyone forgets that most of the turkish community have been born in germany.. they live here in 3rd generation.
we got many turkish workers after wwII to rebuild our country because we had a huge lack in male workers.
they are not immigrants at all.. but thats what populists are saying. and many people are believing.
now the problem is that many of these 3rd generation children do not speak german well (god knows why) they also do not speak turkish well.. they are kind of lost. its more an integration problem we have.. not an immigration problem.
same goes for german kids who prefer to be cool like a rapstar and think not going to school is a really cool thing.
i see thus happen more and more.. and (not ment offensive now) i think its result of more and more americanisation of our society.
I was going to translate that post from Schniepel to Justinian... but I couldn't find much to change. I'm losing my touch...
Justinian,
You simplify. A bad organized selection will bring unrest and corruption. It will be badly organized guaranteed if you put it in practice. You need lower class workers as well btw. And the less capable people don't manage to come over anyway.
Justinian
lots of those folks are skilled and in much of Europe a native-born European is not a European if his parents were not formal citizens. Legal immigrants give birth to legal immigrants. So they have third-generation "immigrants" in their cities.
Imperial Forum → Politics → "Anti Islam Congress" in Cologne Germany
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.