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Imperial Forum → Politics → georgia again
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,578273,00.html
finally it appears our western world begins to think before it shoots blind actions.
Calling someone an ally does not make him free of any guilt.
Only because we called someone an ally before we dont have to support him BLINDLY.
allways better see both sides of a medal before letting actions follow.
this probablly is 5 weeks late.. but better late then never.
the first casualty of War is the truth.
Georgia started this War & lost it militarily but had a huge propaganda victory. It would seem that the West's bias against Russia influenced the media & influenced the reaction of Western leaders. Shinkvaali did a good job appearing on TV playing the victim every 5mins..
yeah but our western societies love to see themselves as the crown of civilisation.
shouldnt we be able to see behind propaganda and such?
Big problem is that people just do not really care. blindly follow the politicians.. are too lazy to make up their own mind.
you get enough information around the internet.. its up to each being to gather the info important for him.
It took America, flexing its muscle and demanding Russia to withdraw to get Russia to move out.
Nothing else. If up to the EU, ..... So what.....its only Georgia.....after all, we realy need Russian Nat Gas.
Moving a Aegis Class Cruiser into the port, "To Deliver humanitarian aid" was a nice touch.
i dont really think russia left because of american pressure.. thats what u americans allways love to believe to satisfie your egos.
russia is doing what russia wants.
now one other question.. why the hell should georgia join the nato?
i see only one reason for it and that is to give the US a chance to expand their military bases around russia.
adding up the missile shield in poland..
i can so much understand russia is feelign pissed.
but i dont expect u to think about russia.. old enemy.. will allways be enemy.
georgia must be the good guys.. they are a real democracy... never trying to do any bad in the world.
Der Speigel discerns US opinion by listening to Hillary?
Let me explain it to you. Since Russia quite rightly does not give a damn how much frowning and snubbing you do, and since the bulk of Europe are gutless cowards who live for money, Europe and American Europhiles are desperately seeking a way out. The way out is to blame Georgia for being invaded and partitioned. You are going to excuse Russia's land grab in Ossetia as a "reaction". You are going to pretend Tblisi needs Russian permission to put down revolts in its own territory. Your "investigation" would continue to condemn Georgia for everything, because Russia won't let you into South Ossetia and will tell you nothing about its own military,so you'd have nothing but a catalog of Georgian discrepancies, none of which absolves Russia of stealing land by conquest.
BTW has Russia pulled out of Poti?
This tells me Europe cannot be trusted as a partner, and should be dictated to rather than consulted. The threat of American withdrawal from the WTO and G8 and the confiscation of European assets in the US should be our leverage. This will be most sucessful if applied to individual EU members. Destabilization of the EU should be a prime goal of US foriegn policy. We can only expect a strong EU to be more of a Russian puppet.
" Members of US President George W. Bush's administration, too, are reconsidering their position. Georgia "
do me the favour and read it all if you comment.
anyways.. go pull out of g8 and whatever.. it wont take long till you will recognize we are not only depending on you.. but you are also dependant on europe.
btw yes.. i read news from 13th this month that russia is removing soldiers and armored vehicles from poti.
Georgia for sure has a rigth to decide on its own WHEN it really is a revolt..
this damn stuff started like 15 years ago.. why did georgia did not react 15.. 10.. 5 years ago?
why they do now? when russia is not good with the west anyways.
I dont say georgia provocated russia... i say they WANTED russia to attack them.. it was obvious they would.. so the great georgian president thought he could take the chance and go for a ride...
he was trying to use us for his own purpose.
try to dictate europe yell.
your big time egos would suffer a lil i would think.
We for sure are no super power... but you will see how dependant even the ALLMIGHTY USA is on other countries.
so please.. leave G8... leave WTO. Stop treating your allies like puppets.
I did read and that's why I said American Europhilessss in the plural. Too many diplomats see continued discussion as the goal instead of a tool. You stick to goals. You drop a tool when it stops working.
I see absolutely no benefit to the US giving other nations a veto over our economy. WTO hinders our economy and does not eliminate foriegn socialist conspiracy against US competition, it legitimates and empowers it.
There is no destabilization EU yell, if you have any sense. Not even after the shameful performance of the EU leaders on this one.
EU is far from unified, and its very hard electorally speaking to lose energy assurance. If it would be one massive block, they'll be capable to make a fist. Destabilizing EU is putting it in Putins hands. Why does he has a french name btw 
Especially the eastern countries are not quick to let russia do whatever it wants.
you Americans might say Europe is weak blah blah- we wont stand up to Russia etc. now I understand what you're saying but look at like this- Russia has in its hand the tap that can turn off most of our oil & gas supplies- not to mention that Russia buys a lot of EU exports plus we buy a lot of their grain & metals etc. they are in a position where they can easily find other buyers for their oil, gas, grain & metals- we cant find other sources so easily & if we did it prices would rocket.
considering that Georgia started the war you can see Europe although full of rhetoric had good reason not to go any further.
Thing is, why on earth did Europe allow itself to become so dependant on Russia? Didn't they see the whole thing being used against them coming from miles and miles away? If not it's stupidity. If so, it's deliberate self-undermining politics.
> Phorum Phantom wrote:
This tells me Europe cannot be trusted as a partner, and should be dictated to rather than consulted. The threat of American withdrawal from the WTO and G8 and the confiscation of European assets in the US should be our leverage. This will be most sucessful if applied to individual EU members. Destabilization of the EU should be a prime goal of US foriegn policy. We can only expect a strong EU to be more of a Russian puppet.
lol n00b. You can't dictate on mule riding afghans or famined iraqis, what makes you think you can do it to anyone else? You're so tied up in debt that if CHina were to pull out their credit the rumble of your country hitting the ground would be heard over here. And you have no allies left except Israel and Europe. Try to have anything intelligent to say before you speak please.
well Europe is currently trying to extracate itself from Russia's grasp by building new oil pipelines. but Europe itself wants a friendly Russia & recognizes that although Russia did overreact against Georgia they did have some justification for what they did.
"Thing is, why on earth did Europe allow itself to become so dependant on Russia?"
Nail on the head vis.
"Didn't they see the whole thing being used against them coming from miles and miles away? If not it's stupidity. If so, it's deliberate self-undermining politics."
The last one. It would be electoral suicide to let energy prices increase. Its an crying shame but understandable from political side. Who's to blame really is the EU population who went asleep thinking the supply will go on forever.
the EU doesnt have the military to invade some Mid East countries for oil - we have to secure oil supply via negotiation.
"we have to secure oil supply via negotiation."
or by having different suppliers, a stock, and less need....
In the long run, becoming totally independant on oil is necessary anyways. Why not invest now and kill two birds with one stone? on that note: http://www.ticklebugs.com/pages/contests.htm 
Hmm I would like to see China dump those bonds
"Psst hey Japan. You want $500 billion in US bonds? Only Y200 billion for you, buddy"
"Er no thanks!" (Runs)
"Hey Europe $500 billion for E100 billion"
"Hell n--WAAK er ahem sorry cabinet shuffle..Aaamm kyes"
"WOOT haha Yankee devil! $500 billion for E100 billion! You screwed!"
"Shaddap, our president had sex with a transgender lesbian I'm busy...wait, you screwed yourself out of $300 billion??!!"
"Yes roundeye gwailo bastaard, now you taste stew 10000 years in the making! You..ah...awwww damn!"
obviously it's always the russians who are the wrongdoers. anything else is just absurd! not even worth talking about or considering!
the russians were the ones who acted first. Georgia acted in self defense. They were right after all
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D937V7H80&show_article=1
Schnaps is just an America Hater. I expect this garbage from him.
but .....
EmperorHez:
"considering that Georgia started the war you can see Europe although full of rhetoric had good reason not to go any further."
ohh....and later the War for Oil tired old argument.
Genisis:
China can cripple the US and other nonsence.
Lucifuge: I have to assume that comment was tongue in cheek. After a few other prior posts you have made in other threads......Im sure you support Russia in this. If Im wrong.....appologies.
What is telling here is this.
To you EUROS-Socialists......
Seems like you all believe the US goes to the middle East for Oil. Although, only 15% of our oil comes from the middle East. Most of the middle East oil is for you Euros. Go Figure.
BUT....in the same breath.....
Russia invading a country....one of the former Soviet block nations, and a country that broke away, and decided NOT to be part of the Russian Federation; A country that has tried their DAMNEST to be a part of the EU, to be a trading partner of the EU, that wants DESPERATELY to be part of NATO.....you all turn your back on.
Its a Small COUNTRY, that knows it has STRATEGIC Importance to Russia. A Country that RUSSIA has tried to influence politically, until the current leader took over. A country who has to deal with Rebels, that are being supported by RUSSIA. A Country that is small and helpless vs. Russia. A country that PLEADED and BEGGED for EU help in dealing with Russia......
A COUNTRY INVADED By Russia......
And you spineless bastards leave them hanging.......making excuses to defend RUSSIA for a BLATANT show of aggression and force and not any intention of freeing or relieving Georgia of any global threat. Georgia has no Govt. that supports and funds terror groups, or a ruthless Dictator in charge.....no ... they have a young and desperate market democracy that wants to be part of the global economy, and live free and prosperous IN UNITY w/the EU and the west.
You Spineless bastard leave them hanging. You turn your back on them. You applaud your SPINELESS, Scared shit Govts. for doing NOTHING.
Because it might mess up your trade w/Russia.
Because it might disrupt your Natural Gas Supply.
Yea....sure lets talk about Georgia Again.
And while we are at it, lets blame America and Georgia for KING Putin's bold move on a friend of the west.
Like RUSSIA is a model of Western Freedoms and Democracy........
Great choice of friends you spineless bastards.
>>lol n00b. You can't dictate on mule riding afghans or famined iraqis, what makes you think you can do it to anyone else? <<
You're not willing to suffer an economy on the level of Afghanistan and Iraq
"Re: georgia againthe russians were the ones who acted first. Georgia acted in self defense. They were right after all
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id
@lucifuge:
"obviously it's always the russians who are the wrongdoers. anything else is just absurd! not even worth talking about or considering!"
that is no real argument. Thats playing personal.
roflmao@vis
@black_wing:
Seems like people don't fully understand the consequence of having a despotism in a country and are blinded by US-is-evil-so-everyone-they-have-troubles-with-are-just.
Imperial Forum → Politics → georgia again
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