My country (thus its inhabitants including me) earn money from high oil price in two ways

1. By owning the majority of the shares in the companies operating the fields

2. By having a 78% tax on the operating companies north sea activities

so as you can see, very much of the revenue is brought back to norway, and thus its ppl

You should read up on the Norwegian Petroleum Fund BW Its quite an amazing story

>>I was born and raised in NYC.   New York air is actually very clean.
I visited LA.   Los Angeles air in August.....HOLY Crap.   Man, was my throat and eyes irritated.   I hated it.
I vowed I would never live in LA, because of that experience.<<

THat's odd, normall the first symptoms are a dry hacking cough

> Black_Wing wrote:

@CaElin

>> OK, understood   (Imagine, how are all the "Environmentalists" now changing to embrace Nuclear??  When did this change happen ??
and I can also say, There MIGHT be a man made effect, although I think it is near ZERO affect.

I was never an environmentalist, just a realist.

>>>Many species are going extinct or are seriously threatened.
Cancer occurs at the highest ever measured rate.

>>Im sure there are....just like many are being discovered everyday....or many have ZERO impact on our lives that seem to be worthy of stopping human progress for a bunch of Enviro-Nazis.

So you agree there's a net LOSS of species. For those who are being discovered allready existed.
Now I don't know much about life in the US, but here every year species I grew up with (20 years ago) are being put on the 'monitored' list. Well right, let's wipe them out for human progress, now who's the nazi?

>>Maybe CANCER awareness, and the ability to detect it are ever higher ? 
Sure.....we are also living longer, have less infant deaths, and are overall much healthier....
.....I like it today better than 500 years ago.

I agree with you on that point, I mean there is more awareness and I wouldn't want to live in 1500 BC either (see my previous post), but my best friend got cancer on 28,  a collegue got cancer on 23, it's not something you expected 20 years ago and now we got all those cases.

>>>Air quality is at an all time low.
>>Oh, really ??  Move to Montana or N. Dakota.....or Northern Alaska or something.  Move away from the cities......if it bothers you that much.
I like industrialization just fine. 
I can live with it.

Industrialization is fine , sure. But Eco-industrialization can profit both man and environment. BTW, we don't have any clear space available to move in our country thanks to industrialization.... What if you use up the clean air?

And moreover, I dare you to come measure our air quality, it's all in the news ...

>>>The circumnavigation of the North Pole is possible for the first time ever in human history.
Sea levels are rising.
I can go on a bit as well ...

>>Yea...Sea levels have been rising ever since the end of the last Ice Age.
Sorry the land bridges got washed away......but man had nothing to do with it.....I assure you.
Your point ?

Circumnavigation of the North Pole hasn't been possible for at least 125000 years. And as you know, severe thawing ages have occured since then.

>>>Some people actually  listen to arguments from both sides before forming an opinion. Some people want to help the environment without returning to a tipi and you know that it is actually possible by improving insulation of homes, using renemable power sources when possible, ...

>>Ohh....I got it.   YOU are informed.  The rest of us are just idiots, and uninformed, and uncaring, and a bunch of right wing Christian soldiers tossing bibles at everyone.

Same style again. I never said this.

>>>If you tend to have reactions like this one, how can you ever expect to get respect? You don't know anything about me and yet, when I read your post it seems like I am a vegetarian left-wing hippie while actually I am quite the opposite.

>> hehe.... Funny.   It it YOU who went over the top there son.
The Green Party Mantra is tired and old.
Al Gore is NOT my Hero.
Green Peace is NOT my Org of choice.
I certainly dint go around chaining my self to trees.

Me neither, I oppose it. And Al Gore is not my hero, though he's got a point.

>>>Good day

>>Ohh, why thank you.   
I ALWAYS have a good day (some are better than others).   
After all, Im a conservative.   
I love life and dont care to run everyone Else's. 

I'm conservative as well, but in the USA I must serve as a left-wing idiot.

>>Have a good day.
Dont worry about so many things son.  It will drive you to an early grave.

Earlier than Evil man and his evil ways can ever do.

Well, I don't intend to see about that.

Coming to Norway now is prolly smart BW, but in a few decades we will go bankrupt from all the seniors and retired ppl jsut like any other western nation

Well Black_Wing,

I'm from Flanders (part of Belgium still) and in me country the political party I vote fer (N-VA : translated New-Flemish alliance) is bein' labelled right-win' extremist, fascist, extremist, seperatist (although that's true) and God knows what many more names one can invent to attack our cause, to be sure. 

But hey lubber, Europe is difficult to compare with the US (don't meaning any bad) and I just seem to differ views with you.

And I find human progress necessary as well (heck, let's go to space) but not at the cost of species.  You were given a planet (as a human race) and you somehow seem the more intelligent of all creatures on this planet but this doesn't give you the right to dispose of them.

No, it gives you the duty to take care for them.

And I know that some species live close to 'Human progress', but whatever we can do, we must do.

What is your plan of action?

Burn all the oil, gas and coal (if that is possible without wiping out mankind) and then see for an alternative?

I assure you that human progress ends abruptly then and we all get back to the Middle Ages when that happens.

Unless we start preparing now.