1 (edited by Red_Rooster 14-Sep-2008 17:09:22)

Topic: Evolution vs Creationism

Yes the age old topic. I was wondering why we didn't have a thread here. Personally, I beleive that creationism is more plausible than evolution. Here I will outline my reasons why evolution is not possible.

Evolution is based on three principles. 1) life happens 2) mutations create new species 3) life is old

According to this theory, a long long time ago some chemicals formed together and created life. This notion has been disproved time and time again. Meaning it is a mathematical impossibility. For the last 50 years chemists have been trying to turn ammonia into algae and have failed to do so every time. They did prove that it is not possible for life to form form a mix of chemicals.

The idea that species can mutate into other species is based on a misunderstanding of the laws of genetics. You see, evolutionists beleive that matter + time + chance has created our brains. ( i got this from ravi zachariah, you should go watch him on youtube big_smile) If you beleive in evolution it means you beleive in chance in essense. You cannot say that you have lots of evidence because you beleive in chance, I beleive in a higher being. Your "chance" theory also has not been proved because it has not been done and I have not seen it nor has any human being seen it. So basically evolutionists create a theory saying "If something can happen, which Darwin said can happen, then it can happen because there is a chance it can happen because Darwin said so"

I would like people to debate with me now big_smile I need to debate this to help me when i join the debate team at my school. So even if you disagree with me, you are still helping me big_smile

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Tell me where evolution conflicts with creation.  You might want to start with laying out the conflicts between both theories.

From what I've seen, both theories can exist side by side with one another.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

"They did prove that it is not possible for life to form form a mix of chemicals."

don't you mean they proved it was impossible for them to form life from a mix of chemicals?

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

@ Zarf
Evolution conflicts with creationism where it says that we came about by a mix of elements and by chance. While creationism says we were created by a higher being. There is a big conflict there.

@ Lucifuge
Yes... What are you trying to prove?

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Evolution conflicts with creationism where it says that we came about by a mix of elements and by chance. While creationism says we were created by a higher being. There is a big conflict there.


Let's start with the "from."  Mix of elements vs. God.  Why couldn't God have used a mix of elements.  At most, your test example proves that there is an element of life which can't be duplicated without the higher being, not that the entire system doesn't work.

It's like if I were to make a cake, but forget to add flour.  When my cake comes out crappy, do I say "screw it, I can't cook?"



Onto chance vs. God.  Hmmmm... is the chance element really necessary to hold the theory of evolution true?  As long as we believe that the environment was preconstructed, evolution would still be God-influenced, in a domino effect.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Red_Rooster, those two statements differ greatly in meaning, but i'm glad you admit your mistake.

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Carbon dating sorta disproves that the world was created more than 7000 years ago, no?

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Red_rooster youre obviously not understanding evolution..

Also i have a question for you as a creationist:

Do you disregard/choose to ignore all the DOCUMENTED findings of older creatures, dinosaurs, early mamals, early primates etc?

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

carbon dating is not reliable because bible doesn't mention its existence.

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

http://www.allaboutcreation.org

OMG read some of that site lol, i specially recommend the one about the dinosaurs

I almost peed my pants from laughing at their statements and arguments lol. Every single sentence contains a lie of some sort, and non of their arguments live up to any standards concerning validity and normal means of documentation lo. Increadibly entertaining, but also disturbing to know that a few wackoes actually believe this :S

LORD HELP OREGON

11 (edited by Selur Ku 14-Sep-2008 18:16:33)

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

I pity creationists, they are on par with flat-earthers, ignoring all evidence and clinging on to any pathetic scrap that supports their dogma.

they are still banging on about "human footprints with dinosaurs" 30 years after the whole thing was proved to be a hoax.

"However, as biologist Massimo Pigliucci noted, geologists in the 1980s "clearly demonstrated that no human being left those prints," but rather "they were in fact metatarsal dinosaur tracks, together with a few pure and simple fakes."[2] The family of George Adams, the man who originally made the claims, later admitted it was a hoax.[3] "My grandfather was a very good sculptor," said Zana Douglas, from the Adams family who found many of Glen Rose

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

"According to this theory, a long long time ago some chemicals formed together and created life."

Wrong, that's abiogenesis a completely separate theory from Evolution

"This notion has been disproved time and time again."

Source?

"For the last 50 years chemists have been trying to turn ammonia into algae and have failed to do so every time. They did prove that it is not possible for life to form form a mix of chemicals."

Again this is abiogenesis and again it's wrong.  Abiogenesis is the theory of spontaneous generation of organic matter, not life.  It the formation of primitive proteins, etc.

"The idea that species can mutate into other species is based on a misunderstanding of the laws of genetics."

Not really, speciation has been observed in flies, I don't have a source handy but I will find it.

"If you beleive in evolution it means you beleive in chance in essense."

So... Chance does exist, if you flip a coin can you guarantee 100% which side it will land on?  Or if you throw six dice down a flight of stairs is there anyway to predict where they land, what face is up, etc.  Now chance does exist in genetic mutation as well we see this in the form of birth defects.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

13 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 14-Sep-2008 19:58:16)

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

> DPS wrote:

> So... Chance does exist, if you flip a coin can you guarantee 100% which side it will land on?  Or if you throw six dice down a flight of stairs is there anyway to predict where they land, what face is up, etc.  Now chance does exist in genetic mutation as well we see this in the form of birth defects.



Your own examples are bad examples of chance.  They only look like chance because there's unknown variables.
Coin: Based on the force of the flip, the angle of the flip, distance between the starting and end point, wind speed, air pressure, etc.
Die: Similar.  It's all math.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

hmm i expected such a response from most of you . lets get to the fun part!

"do you disregard/choose to ignore all the DOCUMENTED findings of older creatures, dinosaurs, early mamals, early primates etc?"

@ noir
Did i say i dont beleive in dinosaurs? You are making assumptions about me because I am a creationist. I beleive anything that has valid evidence and then there are other things where science cannot explain so I have to go by my faith. There is evidence for early mammals, early primates and dinosaurs I agree. I also beleive in Darwin's theory of natural selection. But that is as far I have in common with Darwin. I am here to disprove the idea that by chance and chance alone life was formed x amount of years ago. 

"I pity creationists, they are on par with flat-earthers, ignoring all evidence and clinging on to any pathetic scrap that supports their dogma"

@ selur ku
do waht you may to make me sound ridiculous but i have to point out you beleive in chance. Because darwin said life can start out of thin air you think that there is a chance it can happen. Even though this chance has never been seen happening you still beleive it can happen based on no evidence that it CAN happen. So who sounds more ridiculous? The one who claims he knows something happened with no evidence or the other one who claims something happened with no evidence?

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Red_rooster

nice way of evading my question....

please answer the question:

How old do you think the world is, in exact years..

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

noir well i have to say that was not a very well worded question in the first place.

the Earth is 5 billion years old

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

So you do not believe in the complete version of christian criationism? As it is worded in the bible? You alter it to fit half science half religion

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

hmm i dont have to beleive in the christian version of creationism to be a creationist do i? Cant i be a creationist just by beleiving that life was created by a higher being?

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Red-Rooster

Creatinisme comes from the christian religion, no denying that.

With no other proof than holy scripture... Therefor any other information will just be your own imagination, not a result of countless researches etc

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Isnt christianity just our own imagination? Creationism comes from nearly all religions. And yes there is no other proof for creationism other than holy scripture. But there is no other proof for evolution other than Darwin's theory which might be considered your "holy scripture"

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

Red-Rooster thats wrong, there is countless research, darwin was jsut the frist

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

>Not really, speciation has been observed in flies, I don't have a source handy but I will find it.

No,they didn

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

>And if a higher higher being created the higher being who creted the higher higher being and so on and so forth.

God is eternal and not bound to the laws of the universe he created.You can

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Evolution vs Creationism

if God created this universe- what about the multiple parallel universes that are known to exist?

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth