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Imperial Forum → Politics → Should American Companies pay reparations for supporting the Apartheid
Just curious as to what the playgrounders around here think about this issue.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20080512/ai_n25426171
http://www.counterpunch.org/bond07072008.html
I think moralists in politics should stfu. Everything in politics is about power, and it's wishful thinking to say it would change.
I don't like it but it's true
It stays wishfull thinking as long people say its wishfull thinking and saying moralists should stfu.
problem is that moralists almost never are politicians...
as about the topic.. when i see how much money german companies pay as reparartions to jewish families i think US companies should pay too.
As german companies should also pay if they are involved.
Its about time something is done to stop huge companies and funds to make profit on the misery of lots of other people.
Not the companies or gov but the ones who ordered it inside those companies. Otherwise you let someone else pay for what they did not do. I know its impossible but that's how it should be.
Justinian kinda nails it.
If the US had to pay for all the mischief of their geopolitics, it would be a third-world country. And it would be completely unfair because of the lack of context. For example, in the cold war, they led the "free world" and most developped countries not only supported their actions but took advantage of it.
As Little Paul puts it, there are occasions where you could blame the ones that decided directly, but almost nothing happens in foreign affairs with the government out of the loop. Who's guilty? If it's not a scandal, right here, right now, or clearly a criminal act of one guy or a defined group, it's very difficult to find someone to blame.
On the other hand, I think it should be published and talked about, so that people actually understand what's going on, and what is the real cost of their living habits.
Less hypocrisy would bring more cynism but it would also raise the real questions. Iraq would be less of a mess subject if more people understood the geopolitical aspect of it. That goes too for the French and their so-called opposition to war when it's all about french interests in the region.
Being more transparent would kill the rightists knobheads still arguing on the definition of WMD, and the leftists dreamers who want a fair world which never existed and never will.
Sure, if everybody pays us reparations for doing business with Jimmy Carter.
Shame on you!
You saw what was happening, but you only cared about the money!
I figure the amount owed is one hundred billion dol-EUROS!
"who want a fair world which never existed and never will."
I'm not a leftish but as a comment, its the only option for survival of humankind. Its the only option but I don't believe in it so I think human race is destined to die out.
@The Yell
Did Jimmy Carter ever do anything that was against International Law? Also, I don't think other countries have a law similar to the Alien Tort Claims Act.
@Golk
The U.S. has nothing to do with this. This has nothing to do with foreign affairs. America isn't being sued. Various corporations are being sued under the Alien Tort Claims act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Tort_Claims_Act) for violating international law.
@Little Paul
The corporations, not the individuals made money. So why should individuals have to pay when the corporations reaped the benefits? Besides, under U.S. law, a corporation is a person. So they are suing the "people" responsible.
In a word no
oh well go ahead and sue then.
Yep.
"I think moralists in politics should stfu. Everything in politics is about power, and it's wishful thinking to say it would change."
lol. I think that your government should do as the people think, isn't that the whole idea behind democracy? If the majority of the people are against apartheid-stuff, the government is obliged to take that position.
But there's one thing we should remember about the west. The human rights it so eagerly boasts about only apply when it's in our advantage. Saddam gets eliminated for being "unhuman" or leader of a "terrorist state", while others (within or outide the borders) get away with similar things cause it benefits us.. Apartheid is equally terrorist imo.. But apparently the world goes with what Justinian clearly meant: Hurrah for hypocrisy!!
We have paid imo.
With blood, with money, with labor, with our hearts and souls.
Paid in full, and over paid. End the payments!
Who is we? This thread is about a lawsuit launched against American corporations. Did you actually read the articles Flint? Or are you seriously arguing that American corporations have paid with their blood, money, labor, hears and souls.
Because I'd tend to disagree with that. Especially the money part. American corporations are renowned for making a killing off the deaths of others (re: IBM and Nazi Germany).
Yeah, and our agricultural companies sell banned products in the west, like DDT, to third world countries.
So?
Yeah just as soon as Canada pays for supporting the British Empire
"Yeah, and our agricultural companies sell banned products in the west, like DDT, to third world countries. So?"
Read my last post..
Why don't the U.S start with the original sin and just return North America to the native American indians?
Free Cherokee.
Oh lets do this then
America compensates Native Americans and Blacks and White Males who now are discriminated against, women, and so forth declares bankruptcy, places it's non-native american population in the ocean due to our not having rights to live there.
Europe...
Who had what when first? What was the first tribe to own the area Berlin sits on, they need to be given that land NOW!!! Full compensation for several thousand years of illegal occupation by them, and preventing them from getting their rights. They have to vacate and live in the bottom of the ocean also.
Palestinians need to leave for ever, into the ocean, they never really had that land in the old days.
Italians are ex-romans who are ex-greece who are, I think, it's late and I am tired... ex-macedonians? How do we settle ownership there?
Lets keep doing this around the whole damn world, bankrupt everyone, put everyone in the oceans, and drown them, all in the name of history correcting fairness!
Lets ignore it would imbalance things now, lets ignore it creates more rifts than it solves, lets ignore that no one alive was involved... Yeah!!! Lets ignore all reasonable things in the name of the big [w00f!] jackpot!
Yes.
America[ns] should pay for everything.
i'm more curious about why the world is turning its eyes away from the genocide and ethnic cleansing happening in south africa right now?
"The corporations, not the individuals made money."
That is as stupid as saying "I'm not earning money, my bank account is."
"So why should individuals have to pay when the corporations reaped the benefits?"
A corporation only exists virtually, its not a real person. But the persons who control it, are real, and responsible.
"Besides, under U.S. law, a corporation is a person."
Those laws are pragmatic laws not made by god. (spoken as an atheist, maybe our opinion differs). But that's what I meant when I said "impossible."
"The corporations, not the individuals made money."
That is as stupid as saying "I'm not earning money, my bank account is."
Err no, I don't know how it works in Europe, but mangement types are generally paid a fixed salary. In short, their corporation could make lots of money, lose lots of money or anything in between and it wouldn't matter to their income. Since management types can't funnel a corporation's earnings into their own personal bank accounts, then they really get zilch. I'm not sure you quite understand what a corporation is.
Besides under the law if an employee of a company committed a crime, the company is also liable. E.g. If a Coca-Cola employee goes around spiking Coca-Cola with cyanide, both the employee and Coca-Cola are held responsible.
"A corporation only exists virtually, its not a real person. But the persons who control it, are real, and responsible."
As I already explained to you. Under American law, a corporation is a person. Maybe it doesn't work that way in your country, and maybe you disagree...but in America, corporations are people too.
@Flint
A) We're dealing with corporations compensating their victims, not government.
B) The Apartheid is hardly "history". It just happened.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Should American Companies pay reparations for supporting the Apartheid
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