1 (edited by Justinian I 05-Sep-2008 05:15:29)

Topic: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Why?

Please no arguments that have been falsified (WMDs) or moral arguments (to oust an evil dictator) that never apply to foreign policy. Economic, social and political (extension of power, power equilibrium etc) arguments are the only valid ones.

Ideas?

I used to think that it was for control over Iraqi oil, but it doesn't seem that way. There has to be a political or economic reason somewhere, but what it is?

2 (edited by Theodora 05-Sep-2008 05:25:44)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

There has to be a political or economic reason? Says who? Humans make the decision. One human in particular decided to push for a war. One human who had a grudge against Saddam and who figured lying, cheating and stealing were an ok way to obtain what he so selfishly wanted.

He didn't need an economic or political reason to take revenge.



I mean hell, after victorious strike against the two tower, the U.S. populace was so frightened, they probably would have bleated their assent for a war against Britain. All it takes is one person with a grudge to pick a target and frighten the sheep into going along with an attack.

To serve is to survive

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

> Theodora wrote:

> There has to be a political or economic reason? Says who? Humans make the decision. One human in particular decided to push for a war. One human who had a grudge against Saddam and who figured lying, cheating and stealing were an ok way to obtain what he so selfishly wanted.

He didn't need an economic or political reason to take revenge.



I mean hell, after victorious strike against the two tower, the U.S. populace was so frightened, they probably would have bleated their assent for a war against Britain. All it takes is one person with a grudge to pick a target and frighten the sheep into going along with an attack.>>

Hehe I said "social" too smile. A Turkic Sultan declared war on the Mongols because they insulted him, lol. But humans make decisions because they have motivations for doing them, and morality never has anything to do with political actions. However, it is used as a face to justify actions that may otherwise have political or economic motivations.

Yah that's one possible reason, I suppose. However I'm not entirely convinced by it yet. In my view, it seems like a very risky action at Bush's perspective, if that is the only gain.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Iraq as a resource-rich, independent oil producer which can undermine traditionally despotic/theocratic Arabian OPEC. Afghanistan as the route for a pipeline for the gas-producing Central Asian States to reach ports in Pakistan and hence the rest of the world, circumventing Putin.

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were strategically important as the opening stages for what will be a long, drawn-out War on Terror. The obvious, next step is challenging the religious, extremist government of Iran though this will probably be difficult given the current administration's proven ineptitude with Iraq.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/the_550_tons_of_yellowcake.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

Tell me how do you "lose" 500 WMD's????? Which other nation on Earth has even allowed 100 wmd's to not be found?


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918

Note the anything above 0% is toxic

http://www.iaea.org/OurWork/SV/Invo/factsheet.html

That report shows how much Uranium can be made from Yellow Cake...





This url will sum up the finds, and the 'reassignment of titles' of chemical weapons.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/pesticides_precursors_and_petu_1.html


Btw why do you need enough insect pesticides to eliminate all bugs on earth in a nation the size of Iraq, and ten times over?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

As you can see I am turning this into a debate about WMD's since there ARE AND WERE WMD's in that nation at the time of invasion.


This is evidence, so defeats your so called "falsified" statement.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

I think because the US as a superpower has become unimportant for a huge part of the world after the UDSSR disappeared.
US needs to fight war against 2nd or 3rd class countries to show the world.. here we are.. and we have the biggest balls.
US needs to stay peresent.. needs other countries to think they are so supperior.
So the easiest thing is to invade a country which practically and theoretically stands no chance.

8 (edited by Schniepel 05-Sep-2008 07:10:46)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

as much evidence as collin powel presented in UN security council?
the urls alone make a very very unbiased impression.. great evidence flint. liar

9 (edited by Gw 05-Sep-2008 07:31:08)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

I don't know how to feel ... Happy that there is another republican here, or sad that its Einstien ... hehe, just kidding

But you ask in your post Why the US went to war with Iraq and then ask people to curtail thier answers based on your own beliefs ... Who knows what history will say is the reason, but I myself belive that its because we had given Saddam all those fun toys, and when the relationship desolved, we wanted it back, the reason we didn't find anything is not because the inspectors are stupid, but because  A) they had to play to Saddam's fiddle while he danced around UN sactions and B) He used most of it ... on his own people to boot (Real nice fella, the world is really going to miss him).  If it was truely oil the US was after, don't you think they would have gone after Saudi Arabia?  After all, Osama is from there, granted, he's exiled from there, but if you think we would have falisified reports of WMDs, do you think we could and would have dummied up some info about the Saudis sheltering Bin Ladin?  The US imports oil from Venzuela and Mexico, and we're not ready to invade there.

I say again, who knows what history will say about this in a hundred years.  Children here are taught that the US Civil War was fought over slavery, and while that was a contributing factor, it was more about ecomony and big government ... Lincoln even said if he could have not freed the slaves and avoided the war he would have ... hindsight isn't always 20/20

[RETIRED]

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

i believe the CIA let 911 happen, because Cheney wanted to be in the white house to build his pipeline, and bush had daddy's connections to rig an election.
then bush started smoking crack, and thought kewl i'm the president, and we should kill saddam, of course after he fulfilled his obligations to his special interest group halliburton (Cheney) first.

11

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

... did you really just say that?

I'm going to chalk that up to "I just say stuff to get a rise out of people and if I can't be the universally liked and respected, I might aswell be universally hated and thought an idiot" syndrom.  Its a defence mechanism, you see, you're disliked and made fun of, but on your own terms, so its a choice that you made as opposed to dealing with whatever faults you may have ... in this case, Mom was right, just be yourself and the people that like an respect you will like and respect you for the right reasons.

[RETIRED]

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Oil

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

I doubt it was for oil because gas prices are still high. Even now there is talk of drilling for oil again, hoping that would help lower prices.

I only blame me, myself, and I............................for my faults only =p
...........so yeah

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Oil and bases in middle east

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

It was clearly about control of oil reserves.

- Specifically not allowing large amounts of the worlds reserves to remain in the hands of a government deemed not co-operative to American interests.

The "IRAQ oil law " passed in 2007 takes control of oil from being nationalised under iraqi government contol and passes control to foreign, e.g US companies.

Even Alan Greenspan ex chairman of the Federal reserve has publicly admitted what those in the establishment have known from the start:

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Its not the oil only.. buildingup all the infrastructure gives big time money to the comapnies doing it. i dont know if its only american companies though.

Why did US not invade Saudi Arabia? god who knows.. probablly because they are your "friends". dont ask me why they are.. they are not really better then any other mid east nation.. they are just your friends.. as is pakistan... american hypocricy i would say.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Invade Iraq, cause chaos, reduce the threat of terrorist attacks on the US by keeping them occupied across the ocean.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

I know so many soldiers who HAVE seen the stuff first hand, knew it was WMD's, I mean they found it in bunkers manned by Iraqi Republican Guards, with a lab in the next room, and a full ammo depot built around it...

And they were told it was insect repellent...

They said no way, they were told you best report this.

I have no clue why this is going on like this. I hope some trials come out of this with hangings over it on officers who falsified evidence for political reasons.


I ask people this question always:

You have a warehouse, it is divided into 4 sections by wood walls. It is built of solid brick however on the outside, and is clearly one structure. Section one has lead, a lead melter, and devices to shape the lead into bullet tips. Section two has barrels of gun powder labeled "firework powder". Section three has brass casings that coincidently fit in a ak-47 perfectly, with a big hole in front, and a small hole in back. Section four has those primer things, labeled as 'concusive toys'. It also has a machine which can rapidly put all these things together (at a rate of 1,000 a minute).


Is this a bullet factory? Is it a warehouse for assorted innocent items? Are they bullets, or components for bullets and is the difference really tremendously that big? Is there potential civilian uses for these? (The answer is yes for all ultimately, it can be argued with ease.)

I can make the questions go for as long as the individual needs it to go on to realize that the point is.... Iraq had all the components, this is in the evidence, but it was all called other stuff...




I also ask:

How many Mustard gas shells from WWI were missing for how long?

How many WMD's has Russia lost?

How many WMD's the United States lost?

How many WMD's has Israel lost?

How many WMD's has any nation other than Iraq lost?

Would you leave 500 WMD's lost in an area the size of say all of Germany and Belgium combined? Over a supposed almost 20 year period?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

It was about Iraq supporting terrorism. No wait, it was about WMD's. Nope hang on, Saddam is a dictator. Freedom and democracy. What? Stupid transmitter stopped working.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Flint, please.

Everybody understands your point. "Guilty" material was found. Yes. Ok.

Now, with what little objectivity you might be able to gather, please think: do you think this is anywhere near the threat presented to politicians and public alike? Do you really get to the conclusion that THIS is why other countries decided to go along? Do you, if nobody contests the war or the fact that you can "with a team of say 5 fit people, so utterly gangrape a major US city", or anything you ever said, really think that THIS is the modern lethal terrorist death threat that was presented to the world as a reason to invade?

Well if you do, at least respect Justinian's instructions NOT to pollute the thread with this.

Or someone fetch Mace or any other decent UK guy that you might listen to, to tell you why they felt... THIS was not IT.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

Hmm why don't I open a thread about why is France a country.  And don't give me that bit about the French wanting a nation-state!

DON"T OPEN SUCH A THREAD!  It's an analogy.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

like many other SMARTER people have mentioned in this thread

it was about oil, Bush is an oil man, it's all about oil(the most precious resource in the world)

oh and since we already have a thread open on controversies

There is no such a thing as Osama-bin-laden big_smile

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

> Theodora wrote:

> There has to be a political or economic reason? Says who? Humans make the decision. One human in particular decided to push for a war. One human who had a grudge against Saddam and who figured lying, cheating and stealing were an ok way to obtain what he so selfishly wanted.

He didn't need an economic or political reason to take revenge.



I mean hell, after victorious strike against the two tower, the U.S. populace was so frightened, they probably would have bleated their assent for a war against Britain. All it takes is one person with a grudge to pick a target and frighten the sheep into going along with an attack.


so u are the sheep tongue

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

> Einstein wrote:

> Tell me how do you "lose" 500 WMD's????? Which other nation on Earth has even allowed 100 wmd's to not be found?

i guess you should ask that from the us government who insisted there was WMD in iraq. granted, losing 500 would be a tad difficult. i'm glad we agree on this.

A pessimist is a well-informed optimist.

Re: Why did the US go to war in Iraq?

"Tell me how do you "lose" 500 WMD's????? Which other nation on Earth has even allowed 100 wmd's to not be found"
Depending on what WMD you're talking about, the amount of devices lost in WW2 or even afhganistan can tip it. But its not the amount alone that matters.