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Topic: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Some people on this forum claim russia is a democracy others claim its not.(like me tongue)
There are also different opinions about wheter putin was ellected democraticly or not.

I think this discussion diserves its own thread.

Important in this discussion I think is the definition of a democracy and democratic ellections. I'm going to type a post about it later. Till then feel free to ellaborate.

As a sidenote: The idee to start this thread came from a discusion I had with fokker but this thread isn't ment to be an extension of that or even personal in any way.

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2 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 31-Aug-2008 20:40:11)

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Russia is a democratic government in name, but in practice it's better described as a very small oligarchy (and Putin as the most powerful oligarch). We could also essentially say the same for the US.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Russia is a democracy.
But its democracy has been corrupted.
The same goes for multiple western nations around the world.
But they/we aren't as overt/obvious about it.
We are subtle, whereas Putin isn't.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

"The same goes for multiple western nations around the world."

Multiple? Don't you mean all?

Everyone forgets about Canada, but look at Paul Martin. He owned a shipping company but sold it to his sons due to conflict of interest. Steven Harper is having plenty of secret meetings with Oil exec's. Then's there the whole Mulroney scandal/ cover up/ scandal again. And I think one of our Senators in a former NHL hockey player. And the claim that the Conservative party (apparently with Harper's knowledge) tried to bribe an Indepentant MP who was on his death bed? Canadian politics may appear fairly clean on the outside, but thats only because the White House is so evidently corrupted, that we don't even get a second look.

"In a world of global deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

^^^ unfortunately I fully agree.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

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  • Rin
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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

In Canada milk comes in bags.

<parrot> there is also the odd  possibility that tryme is an idiot
<KT> possibility?
<genesis> tryme is a bit of an idiot
<Torqez> bit?

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

it used to
it no longer does...stupid sociastic milk board

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Russia is a stage-democracy. Every inhabitant knows it's not, but they keep pretending it is..
It's very similar to most old medieval city democracies really (however that tradition were easily discontinued for a while when a riot started) tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Lol, old medieval democracies? I hope you don't mean cities like Florence or Venice. While they had a front as being "Republican," they weren't democratic and voting was restricted.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

I was aiming more at proper medieval cities Justinian like Ghent, Bruges etc. wink They all started out as perfect democracies (Florence and Venice in fact too), but were changed into oligarchies in wich only a minority could vote.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

IA's first post gets my vote, Yahoo Answer style. Clear, brief and to the point.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Didn't they put garry kasparov in prison for some random charges because he was a political enemy of putin?

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

no he lost a chess match.. the lazy bastard apperently stopped practicing

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

first of all define democracy

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

> Wild Foolish Soul wrote:

> I was aiming more at proper medieval cities Justinian like Ghent, Bruges etc. wink They all started out as perfect democracies (Florence and Venice in fact too), but were changed into oligarchies in wich only a minority could vote.

Naw, the Venetian Republic started out with the Doge exercising autocratic power, and then becoming increasingly more Republican as the merchant class dwindled his power in the senate. It was not a democracy like ancient Athens, although the masses had a major council that enabled them to have some representation. Although later it became more oligarchic as the Doge's power further decreased and the council of ten was established.

In Florence, the anti-aristocratic movements in the 1300s lead to a merchant elite controlling the city from the get-go. The guilds always controlled the city, with the exception of some autocrats like the Medicis.

In the low countries like Ghent, the same thing was true. They were merchant cities (thanks to its wool industry) that were also controlled by the guilds and its merchant elite. The idea that they were democracies at any time is kind of silly. Why would such powerful merchants share power with pathetic peasants?

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

@phoenix:
Nail on the head. I was about to start posting about it btw, but I don't have any spare time today.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Russia a Democracy ??

As in a western style representative republic ?


Hell no.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

> Phoenix Mailer wrote:

> first of all define democracy
______________________________
I see no one wants to answer that.
I wonder why.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

Yeah lol. It's like how Americans like to think they invented the idea of a democratic republic. All they did was take a core idea, add a splash of paint and some glitter. They have always been rather good at rebranding something as their own. I mean, if you took American ads word for word, you'd think they invented ancient Chinese medicine.

"In a world of global deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

America just invented Canada is all.

After all, w/o America....there is no Canada.

Pfft.....move on.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

we did invent chop suey!

back from your cruise BW?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

> CanadianTire wrote:

> Yeah lol. It's like how Americans like to think they invented the idea of a democratic republic. All they did was take a core idea, add a splash of paint and some glitter. They have always been rather good at rebranding something as their own. I mean, if you took American ads word for word, you'd think they invented ancient Chinese medicine.
_________________
lol
and the movie "Saving Private Ryan", though quite good, was grossly inaccurate as to who mostly saved the day...it was Canadians, not Americans.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

saved the day where? Omaha Beach was all yank

and all those DDay movies skip the Navy, US destroyers moved to a half-mile from the beach and fired 110mm cannon down the tube at kraut pillboxes

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

"America just invented Canada is all.

After all, w/o America....there is no Canada."

Um yea... without america there is no USA either. Such stupid comment lol tongue

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25 Reply by Little Paul (edited by Little Paul 02-Sep-2008 22:34:17)

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Re: Russia. Is it a democracy or not?

For me, russia is no democracy. Its not even partly democratic. Even if the current gov has a lot of support.

Here goes my view upon democracy:
You have as many definitions of a democracy as there are people, but you can devide the lot in 2 big categories.
1.) Its a control system
2.) the "everybody has a voice" ideal
Most definitions have a mix of those 2.

I however, see a democracy as a control system 100%. Even a direct democracy still only reflects the voice of the majority. A despotism the voice of a few. An anarchy, the voice of the strongest. Then why do I advocate a democracy? Because its control system functions. Despite popular believe a good democratic control system actually decreases corruption. And here comes the core of my story, the things you need for a good democratic control system:
*Free ellections:
-Well informed citizens
->free (or objective) media
->educated citizens
-possibility to compete
->no repression of political oponents
->freedom of speech
->honest voting process
-universal suffrage (not going into detail)
->guarantee to vote in safety

*devision of the 3 powers

I'll post the rest tomorow.

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