> TheYell wrote:

>Berating my country for thwarting a hypothetical future pullout is not an attack from the facts of the case.<

How is this response is relevant to my post?

>Right sorry, I got my brit appeasers confused.<

Apologies work better if they are not immediately followed by insults.

>I'd call that an admission you shrug off ethnic cleansing.<

If that is how you want to spin my post then that is how you want to spin it, but be warned: Putting this kind of spin on my post will put the same kind of spin on your posts, on your shrugging off of the Georgian attemped "ethnic cleansing" of Ossetia.

>What treaty did we sign saying we wouldn't spy?  I don't want good relations with a fascist aggressor like Russia.<

But good relations with Georgian aggressors, the first ones to fire a shot, the ones who bombed Ossetia, are fine and dandy.

>RUSSIA gave a date and our damnfool US govt fell for it.  RUSSIA was not out by the 18th.<

But they WERE leaving, on the date they specified, which is better than the USA, which seems to come up with a new exit date for Iraq every month, ever managed.

>RUSSIA makes clear it will not be moving from where it is now.<

Yes Yell, NOW they are not moving.
I do believe we are getting somewhere.

>First dibs? ELF and the Israelis got first dibs, and neither sent troops, but they got oil and telephone contracts from the independent Iraqi ministries.  US security firms are going to be BANNED in Iraq.  Iraq is in no way part of USA.<

So the USA has never taken steps to ensure that the future Iraqi economy will be linked to its own economy? That's funny, I remember a discussion on this very forum regarding the number of American businesses that were setting up shop in Iraq... Hell, I remember that discussion being on the BBC.

>If it happens through a Russian invasion, yes.<

Good thing Ossetia wants to be part of Russia then, isn't it?

>By taking lands in conquest.<

What conquest, Ossetia wants to be part of Russia?

>Russian army goes into a foriegn country.<

Yup. Rather nice of them to defend the Ossetians from Georgian bombs. Remember when your country used to do things like that?

>Russian border moves up to include occupied territory.<

When did this happen? Better yet, where did this happen?

>That is a war of conquest and assimilation<

If it actually happened then yes it would be.

>>I thought you liked democracy<
I do, it is the closest we will ever come to true Communism in my lifetime. What about you, do you like Democracy, do you believe that the people should be free to choose their leaders, no matter how stupid?

Nope! Communism = tyranny<

I hope, for your sake, you never realise what you have just said. Honestly, I do.

__________

From another thread, but still relevant:

>There are a few points that have caught my attention, points that nobody has addressed properly:

America "Russia has no authority or rights beyond its borders."
Russia "If you can then we can"

As long as America can be seen to be stomping accross the Middle East and throwing its shadow over places like Iran and North Korea any complaint anyone makes sounds hypocritical. Wether such complaints are hypocritical in reality is irrelevant.

America "Do as I say or I'll hurt you"
Russia "With what?"
A "Our mighty army"
R "You'll have to pull them out of Iraq first"
A "We don't need to, even a fraction of our army could crush all of yours"
R "Right, and I'm sure your nations mothers and fathers will love you for intentionally sending their kids on a suicide mission up the Neva. That is of course if we don't just nuke them the second we see them coming."
A "Then we'll just nuke you"
R "With the warheads you downgraded to 5 megatons, for the sake of the environment?"
A "Yup, less radiation and fallout so we can come in to finish the job, cut you up"
R "You do know our missiles come with 10 megaton warheads as standard, right? You do know we have at least twice the amount of missiles you have, right? You do know what that will do to your country, right?"
A "You'll be in the same boat"
R "No we won't, your missiles are small and clean, leaving miimal radiation. With our vast supply of minerals, ores and oil we'll be back on our feet so fast we'll be sending aid to the glowing leper colony that your country has become. Face it, we play your game better than you do, in spite of your economic superiority."
A "Oh yeah, well Jesus hates you!"<

I was also working on a skit to further highlight America's hypocrisy in this whole situation, but The Yell did a far better job than I ever could.

__________

I will no longer partake of this discussion, make of this action what you will.

"UN gave them a pass by calling for creation of a new country in that area"

i'm talking about later.. current borders aren't the ones as the country was created.. but pssst

back to topic

I'm referring to UN creating the Palestinian Authority in the 1990s.  As a matter of law Israel can't absorb Jordanian and Syrian territory, but the UN gave them a pass by making a whole other nation out of it.  Egypt and Jordan don't want the highly politicized and self-centered Palestinians as their own citizens either, because they'd revolt like they did in Gaza. So the strict reading of international law has been broached by mutual consent--with the exception of the Golan Heights which Syria wants back.

answere, no.

A couple of articles taken from my favourite .RU source for your perusal:

Eyewitness: Russian troops pull back
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7577436.stm
Dated last Wednesday.

Meeting Russia's new 'Number One'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7583450.stm
Dated last Friday (Video warning: Video on page will rape small count- connections)
He does not swear like Putin did... Never thought I'd miss that.

In pictures: Russia pulls out of Georgia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7577201.stm
Dated last Friday.
Yet another .RU source.

Russian MPs back Georgia's rebels
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7580386.stm
Dated Monday.
For obvious reasons the following statement stood out to me:
"Moscow launched a counter-attack after Tbilisi tried to retake South Ossetia by military force."
Which makes it official, if only quietly so. It must have hurt our favourite .RU source to say that.

Yeah, the Duma always was overly dramatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmneBvV8cLs&feature=related

There is a better one that I cannot find (obviously) in which almost the entire Duma is fighting.

> Little Paul wrote:

> wouldn't be georgia. Anyway, you seem unwilling to react to my claim?<

Why would I react to what is quite clearly personal opinion? But, if you insist:

There is nothing to say other than what I have already said:

Putins election as president was democratic.
Putins election as Prime Minister was under unfair circumstances, and it is possible that the result had help, but the election was still democratic, even if it was only just.

Or, as Putin would say to Bush "If you can, we can".

PHOENIX MAILER in a closed thread:

"the peace plan brokered by Sarkozi was not signed by georgian president Saakashvili
Instead he signed Sarkozi's letter, so technically there is no any peace agreement between russia and georgia - the war goes on"

In an interview with th' Russian newspaper Vremya Novostei, Dmitry Rogozin, warned that any NATO attack on th' Moscow-backed regions would "mean a declaration o' war on Russia."

The Kremlin moved swiftly to tighten its grip on Georgia

If USA send forces into Canada to relieve repression of Quebec, and Quebec drove all the Canucks out and then voted to be the 51st state?

As we said Russia waged a war of conquest.  Good lookin out.

>>That would have been very clever had the BBC not had the professionalism to put DATES on their articles. Your precious proof is dated BEFORE the pullout.

Now that we have established to what level you are prepared to sink in order to "prove" that Russia is the source of all evil and that America and pals are the saviousr of the universe, AND that I am no longer in the mood for your pathetic bleating:<<

Awww.  Today is August 30th and the "pullout" is over and the Russians are still dug in before Poti.  They are staying put.    They will not pullout.  They occupy Georgia.

>>Ossetia and Azbawhatever have had defacto independence since 1990.<<

De jure they are Georgia.

>>During that time they have not deferred, ever, to Georgia, or even adopted anything Georgian, but Russian. They have been Russian, by choice (yes, even the Georgians living there) in all but name only for 18 years. <<

Such blatant lies!  Only two weeks ago you were touting their historic INDEPENDENCE. This was your story as of 8/23, pg 2 of this thread:

>Why is this at issue? Because Russia, not the US, is expanding its borders by military force.
I thought we'd agreed as recently as 1990 that wasn't cool.
So to me it's not whether -I- want a war, but whether Russia does.<
Expanding borders? I thought it was already well established that Russia simply decided to teach one little Hitler, one little Hitler who was bombing the snot out of Ossetia, a lesson. But you feel free to continue to ignore this little fact, the fact that Georgia was the aggressor and got what it deserved as a result, while you try desperately to spin the facts, I'm sure nobody will notice.

And as of 8/25 on the same page of this thread:
>Russian army goes into a foriegn country.<
Yup. Rather nice of them to defend the Ossetians from Georgian bombs. Remember when your country used to do things like that?

>Russian border moves up to include occupied territory.<
When did this happen? Better yet, where did this happen?

>That is a war of conquest and assimilation<
If it actually happened then yes it would be."

>>The only reasons YOUR government has for refusing recognise them as independent states after the collapse of the USSR is:
1) There is no Ossetia or Azbawhatever on maps pre-dating the USSR.
2) Georgia's precious oil pipeline would have to either be cut or placed under Russian control.<<

3. We recognize the independence of Georgia and its freedom to tell Moscow "No"
as does YOUR govt Brit

>>The only reason your government is insisting on calling Russia's presence in these areas an invasion is because the only way they can be sure their Georgian pals will keep them in oil is if they (and you, Yell) overlook the fact that GEORGIA INVADED OSSESTIA.<<
Georgia can no more invade Ossetia than the United kingdom can invade Wales.
Russia has send troops into a foriegn nation--that is invasion.
Russia has taken territory by war--that is conquest.

>>Now grow a spine and drop the party line, or STFU and GTFO.<<
Neither.  I have a spine and I call for the criminal regime in Moscow to be destroyed.
Party line---You remind me of the commies of the 1930s I read about  "Damn X! X is bad! All free people hate X!--Moscow said "X"?...Yay X! Forward X!"

ps

rawr rawr thhbppttt!!!