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Imperial Forum → Politics → Next step in georgian conflict
Yell you telling me US is free to go and install for example nuclear weapons in georgia ?
Well ultimately one can try to do whatever he wants but he should expect counter-action and so in the end TO AVOID DIRECT CONFLICT EVERYONE PLAYS BY AGREED RULES
this is what UN security council is for and its permanent members are the de-facto powers that are able to enforce the rules so that everyone plays by the rules.
"If the United States wishes to ship arms in, C5 aircraft, with fighter escorts, would be dropping goods left and night in the southern parts where russia had not reached. Other aircraft would be employed as well. Tanks, APC's, Artillery, Rockets, Ammunition, Mercenaries, etc could all be sent."
This is not true. Russians have air supremacy over georgia and US military specialists know it
I don't want to avoid direct conflict. Let them shoot at our planes and reap death.
"this is what UN security council is for and its permanent members are the de-facto powers that are able to enforce the rules so that everyone plays by the rules."
No, its to make sure nobody is called for breaking the rules, by demanding none of the powers can act without the security council and then always failing to approve action
omfg what drugs are you on?
Russia has crap aircraft. They have maintainence issues with them, their missiles are less than 25% as efficient as ours, their ranges are like 1/10th of ours, and they have lacked training time for their pilots.
Our aircraft are not needed in Afghanistan or Iraq. At least the air to air fighter ones. We could crush the entirety of the Russian airforce with 25% of our fighters, and they KNOW IT.
"I just dont understand what's the point ? russians could have removed Saakashvili if they wanted to, apparently they did not plan to. So US should not be worried about their puppet being removed."
Sure, that's what I should bring back from this. A profound trust in Russian tact and discretion. Hell, I ought to be GRATEFUL to them for ending their aggression so swiftly. Ask me again when they're in Tblisi after further "provocation".
Can we launch a space shuttle? Do we have Russia's permission for that too?
QUOTE OF THE DAY TheYell said "I don't want to avoid direct conflict."
then good luck with WW3 and i will meet you in hell 
@Einstein Bush is in deep [poo] in Iraq and Afganistan right now and you want him to go fight russians near their borders in georgia ? Common russian airbases are within 5 minutes from georgia. It is not me but it must be you who is on crack Einstein
Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan require use of air superiority fighters. They don't even really need fighter-bombers. It would not diminish our wars in either region to send enough tactical aircraft to wreck the couple of divisions Russia put into Georgia.
"then good luck with WW3 and i will meet you in hell "
praps Brit, Russia will demand more of UK than USA, just the nature of the business. When they do you may be glad of Americans like me who'd tell them to piss off or die.
> TheYell wrote:
> Because nobody but a military would go into Georgia.
Mailer, if the sovereign govt of the USA wished to send arms to the soveriegn govt of Georgia--we don't , sadly, but we should-- Russia has no veto short of an act of war against the USA. None of their business.<
I'm curious, did you actually do something during the Cold War, something more worthwhile than sitting at Reception looking hard? The reason I ask is that it seems that you are absolutely desperate to go back to those days no matter what the cost, as your wish to fight a war-by-proxy seems to indicate.
__________
Perhaps the USA is intentionally trying to provoke another Cold War in the hope that another Cold War will be as good for their economy as the last one? Hmm...
... But that could only work if half the world was at war, with America selling everyone the guns, just like last time.
[edit]
>Ask me again when they're in Tblisi after further "provocation".<
Why, how much "aid" does Georgia think it needs?
I'm curious, did you actually do something during the Cold War, something more worthwhile than sitting at Reception looking hard? The reason I ask is that it seems that you are absolutely desperate to go back to those days no matter what the cost, as your wish to fight a war-by-proxy seems to indicate.
The costs of your peace are borne by others, like Georgia.
Why is this at issue? Because Russia, not the US, is expanding its borders by military force.
I thought we'd agreed as recently as 1990 that wasn't cool.
So to me it's not whether -I- want a war, but whether Russia does.
"Perhaps the USA is intentionally trying to provoke another Cold War in the hope that another Cold War will be as good for their economy as the last one? Hmm...
... But that could only work if half the world was at war, with America selling everyone the guns, just like last time."
Again the odd focus on America, America, America and what it does to provoke war by not selling out its friends to the Russian war machine.
">Ask me again when they're in Tblisi after further "provocation".<
Why, how much "aid" does Georgia think it needs?"
One airconditioner or blanket too many, and its curtains for the provocative Georgians and their warmongering friends, the American Red Cross...
I do not care if their airbases are 1 minute and ours are 10 hours from the prospective combat zone... either way we wax them, we give 1/20th of Russia to Georgia as punishment for Russia's activities, and we call it a day.
"we wax them"...
well Einstein go there right now and get killed cause it seems that's what you are offering all of us to do - give us an example. Do you happen to be an arms dealer or your daddy is a banker who would profit from the war?
> TheYell wrote:
>The costs of your peace are borne by others, like Georgia.<
Aggressive, invasive, genocidal nut-job invades autonomous area, aggressive, invasive, genocidal nut-job gets flattened. My favourite kind of price.
>Why is this at issue? Because Russia, not the US, is expanding its borders by military force.
I thought we'd agreed as recently as 1990 that wasn't cool.
So to me it's not whether -I- want a war, but whether Russia does.<
Expanding borders? I thought it was already well established that Russia simply decided to teach one little Hitler, one little Hitler who was bombing the snot out of Ossetia, a lesson. But you feel free to continue to ignore this little fact, the fact that Georgia was the aggressor and got what it deserved as a result, while you try desperately to spin the facts, I'm sure nobody will notice.
>Again the odd focus on America, America, America and what it does to provoke war by not selling out its friends to the Russian war machine.<
Ah, so I take it we in the UK can begin launching nukes at France safe in the knowledge that the USA will not say a word until the Germans try to stop us?
>One airconditioner or blanket too many, and its curtains for the provocative Georgians and their warmongering friends, the American Red Cross...<
You might want to be nice to the genocidal nut-job in Georgia, you might want to overlook Georgia attacking Ossetia first, for no reason other than he buys your toys, but for the rest of us we think it better to be nice to the people who behave themselves rather than the genocidal nutters who wave the right flag at the right time.
> LaoTzu wrote:
> "you seem to forget that georgia attacked first.. breaking a uliteral ceasefire they announced earlier.. and a agreement from 1992..
so what did they expect? the russian ambassondor told 3 days earlier what would happen if georgia invades... they didn't care... idots if you ask me.. someone should go to there president and give him one slap for every death civilian or militar he caused.. maybe then he starts thinking next time..."
Russia had no say in the matter, Ossetia is a province of Georgia, just like Abkhazia is, but look, the Russians walked in unwanted there too.
______________________________
And the Russians incited the Georgians to attack them.
So who's to blame?
Both, actually.
"And the Russians incited the Georgians to attack them.
So who's to blame?
Both, actually."
Please none of this relativistic crap. Try to pull off some ethnic cleansing and it shouldn't (though it seems to) matter how "pro-Western" you are, you deserve to get it. Ordinarily there would be some arrangements for key elements of Georgia's government to be attending the Hague, but nowadays that depends on how pro U.S you are.
I'd hardly call Georgia's incursion into South Ossetia unwarranted. The Georgians had every right to go into that territory and quell whatever rebellion occurred. It is the equivalent of the USA invading the Confederate States in its Civil War. It would be the equivalent of Canada invading Quebec if the Quebecois decided to declare independence of Canada (if the Canadians wanted Quebec, that is). Even IF there was a genocide going on (which I highly doubt there was as Saakashvili would know better than to be condemned by the West for Genocide), Russia had no right to go beyond South Ossetia, and furthermore, attack the coastlines and open up a second front in Abkhazia. Now we're getting reports of tens of thousands of displaced Georgians, dozens of burning/burned Georgian villages, and groups of "unknown soldiers" killing, burning, and looting across the Georgian countryside within Russian-held territories.
Um to tell it really simple.
Georgia attacked South Ossetia.
South Ossetia asked Russia to help them from getting all killed.
Russia went to help.
Dunno if you wanted South Ossetia to get viped from the map or something instead
On the other hand.
USA invades Iraq for no real reason, going against the UN which results in hundreds of thoussands dead, milions fleeing to other countries... and they dare to say that Russia is the bad one? Really, it's hillarious how crazy you americans in here are...
"I'd hardly call Georgia's incursion into South Ossetia unwarranted. The Georgians had every right to go into that territory and quell whatever rebellion occurred. It is the equivalent of the USA invading the Confederate States in its Civil War"
you forgot that they already fighted in 1992 and signed an agreement then...
would be like the USA losing vs the Confedertes.. signing an agreement.. and 15 years later they breake it and fight again
"Um to tell it really simple.
Georgia attacked South Ossetia.
South Ossetia asked Russia to help them from getting all killed.
Russia went to help."
you all seem to forgot the offical georgian versione they reported to nato!
russian panzer entered ostsetia at 5 am.. and then Georgian launched there offensive.. not bevor... thats stated that way in the official paper the sent to the nato about that conflict
(stupid if georgians interior minsiter said at 4 am that Georgian troops are in full controll of the capital now.. )
yeah einstein, lets hit russia, your US economie could really use a new war, and this time even with a country that stands a good chance of whooping the US 
Vote republican and it shall happen!
Nice to see the majority of the people in this thread consider reality-truth to be far more important than spoken-truth.
this still made me laugh though;
http://punditkitchen.com/2008/08/13/political-pictures-vladimir-putin-can-haz-georgia/
were do you get your facts from then fokker?
What I consider much nicer is the actions of some leaders from some countries seem to justify radical measures or consequences regarding the civilians within a certain border.
Wheter the georgian president started the war or not, wich is still a point of discussion is not a justification for bombing georgia to the stone-age or disturbing its democratic system or even worse, replacing it by a despotism like the russian gov.
russian president put it very nicely when talking to Merkel in Sochi - Should the world be watching still doing nothing about the whole ethnic group being wiped out ?
i understand that the question is rethoric because we all keep watching israelis genocide in palestine for decades and doing nothing to stop it. Ossetians just happened to be more lucky to have a neighbour that could and was willing to prevent it.
Matrix wrote: "
you all seem to forgot the offical georgian versione they reported to nato!
russian panzer entered ostsetia at 5 am.. and then Georgian launched there offensive.. not bevor... thats stated that way in the official paper the sent to the nato about that conflict tongue"
to start with georgians operate russian made panzers too
but the paramount is that the day before war broke out russians anticipating georgia's attack were asking for immediate UN security council meeting and they presented a resolution to avoid use of violence in the region, Interestingly it was USA that vetoed the resolution what surprised me alot since there was nothing in the text but call for peace
Russia didn
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