1 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 13:00:23)

Topic: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

The US wants to freeze the nato corporation with russia as a sanction for the russian military action. But countries like france, germany, turkey, greece don't want to break connections because russia is to important for energy supply.

Personally, I hold them responsible to become dependant in the first place. If they want to become less independant, they need to make a stand over georgia wich is important for energy security. Also they need a national back-up plan in case they really try to blackmail us.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

yea, damnit, we should invade them for their oil, so we can be independant!

oh, wait, no that's the USA

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

3 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 14:50:33)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Not invade primo, that would be if georgia was already taken and they try to take it back or if we attack georgia. Not if the country itself ask for military aid first and we deliver. Or if we do make a diplomatic attack. Its called an alliance. Second, georgia doesn't own it in that quantities but secures a safe pasage for it.

However when I said make a stance you interprete me wrong. There is a distinct difference in a trade embargo and military aid or military threathening and starting a full scale military conflict. Fear is the best diplomatic weapon we have to prevent conflict. If georgia would be part of the nato, russia wouldn't dare to invade because of the still existant nuclear retaliation. There wouldn't have been a conflict inside georgia.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

never get me wrong tough, I wished all nuclear weapons ceased to exist alltogether.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Seems to me if we blew up Russia's energy industry, it would stop Russia's arms buildup and teach you to become idependent of Russia

Win/win

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Apart from thousands of casualties and even more dead citizens.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

7 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 16:35:29)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

idd Alan, that, and a nuclear threat beyond immagination.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Indeed, that too!

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

9 (edited by Phoenix Mailer 19-Aug-2008 17:02:10)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"The US wants to freeze the nato corporation with russia"

you mean cooperation not corporation right ?


well to start with NATO was never cooperating with russia but was always pushing towards russian borders. If you recall the fall of Berlin wall then Gorbatchev was promised that NATO will not expand towards the east - NATO had broken this promise

When russians marched to Kosovo after Belgrade bombardment by NATO forces again Yeltsin was promissed that Kosovo will never be separated from Serbia - the promise was broken once again

I think russians have finally realised NATO can not be trusted and the only language it understands is as Bush put it - "might is right"

I will not be surprised if after installment of US shield in Poland with Patriot missiles added russians will follow with nuclear arsenals in Cuba and Venezuela (besides Belorussia and Kaliningrad installments)

This is all very sad for the tax payers on both sides - looks like military industrial complex is the only winner

10 (edited by Soth 19-Aug-2008 17:03:27)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"never get me wrong tough, I wished all nuclear weapons ceased to exist alltogether."

ROTFLMHO

Oh the Utopia that we would have then.  *looks longingly at his rose tinted glasses*


I'm still poking fun at that but i see your point.

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
                                          Thomas Jefferson

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Promises to USSR died with the USSR

Though we renewed many of them

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"I will not be surprised if after installment of US shield in Poland with Patriot missiles added russians will follow with nuclear arsenals in Cuba and Venezuela (besides Belorussia and Kaliningrad installments)"

From  that point of view, it's a terrible pitty that the Russians sold Alaska to the Americans tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"From  that point of view, it's a terrible pitty that the Russians sold Alaska to the Americans"

Alaska is still a LONG ways away from the mainland United States

In matters of style, swim with the current;
In matters of principle, stand like a rock.
                                          Thomas Jefferson

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

NATO vs Russia is now about Nuclear Primacy
as soon as NATO achieves it russia will be crushed in a nuclear blast unable to retaliate

15 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 18:18:11)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

the point is, you cannot acchieve it. Missile shields don't work and probably won't for the future to come.

Next to that, most nations are completely against any form of nuclear use. MAD is the word.

A last argument is nuclear fallout and the indirect consequences of such an operation.

16 (edited by Alan Statham 19-Aug-2008 18:22:24)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"as soon as NATO achieves it russia will be crushed in a nuclear blast unable to retaliate"

But why would we even want to nuke Russia to oblivion? For the love of god!! If you'd even attempt to do so, you'd spread enough fallout to destroy the rest of the world along with it...

Honeslty, I'm frightened by this gun-pulling ideas that float around here. Yes, what happened to Georgia is bad, but it's at least understandable why the Russians pulled the trick. My point of view is that their attitude shouldn't necessairily be a reason for us to start a war with them..

The world is NOT the setting of Dr. Strangelove!

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Funny when Gerogia started the conflict then Russia gets 100% of the blame for it. And they get blamed from USA? yikes Crazy tongue

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18 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 18:38:44)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

@alan:
I love that movie. big_smile But again, a war with russia is not the same as making a stance in georgia. And it is not the same as vietnam or iraq either.

I see good reasons to consider diplomatic and economic threats seriously:
The georgians asked for help themselfs. They are a democratic nation we gladly seem to sacrifice in the name of peace. Wheter his leader ignited the war or not. The EU leaders showed they're even prepared to bow for anyone that holds the energy supply even while it is not as serious as it will be after georgia is taken. So if they do take georgia, they will bow to the ground to a despotist nation.

That would be devestating for world peace. All of the former soviet countries are in danger then but also europe, wich would be completely dependant on moscow.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

Who's talking nukes? I saw level the bastards with conventional bombs.  If they wanna take it to a nuclear showdown, THEN we turn the biosphere to plasma

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

20 (edited by Phoenix Mailer 19-Aug-2008 18:42:10)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"But why would we even want to nuke Russia to oblivion? For the love of god"

Resources of siberia smile


MAD = Mutually Assured Destruction is what US tries to avoid by achieving Nuclear Primacy. BTW USSR was trying to achieve the same goals too...

Installing a shield at enemy borders can weaken retaliation attack to a point where couple nuclear bombs penetrating your defences is a reasonable cost to achieve victory. This is the whole point of  Chech and Polish shield US is installing there.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"I saw level the bastards with conventional bombs."
?
You kill hundreds of thousands in Iraq and then you come and say that they are "bastards"? tongue
Kinda idiotic comment.

25 Inventors: Back from Hell (8528) (x:93,y:21) 391 845454 - Dont see them coming back up. Theyre out of the game. Pretender, will finish out of top 30.
------
4 Inventors: Back from Hell (8528) (x:93,y:21) 945 57233492

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

@yell:
it would mean nuclear retaliation if you attack the motherland. Thats why it would have been good if georgia would have been part of the nato. They wouldn't have ignited the war (if they did so) and russia wouldn't have attacked it either.

We face a nuclear threat daily. Let us at least use the only thing positive about it as well and be a bit pragmatic here.

23 (edited by Little Paul 19-Aug-2008 18:46:58)

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

"Installing a shield at enemy borders can weaken retaliation attack to a point where couple nuclear bombs penetrating your defences is a reasonable cost to achieve victory. This si the whole point about Chech and Polish shield US is installing there"
it is impossible to stop even a small amount of the ICBMs. Maybe, MAYBE you can avoid a few. Certainly not the submarines or the clusters. Then its still insignificant. But blasting them at home would destroy the rest of the world to anyway.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

OMG Generation Y gets the Fear of the Bomb and tries to surrender roll

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Nato gathers to discuss georgia.

it has nothing to do with surrender. It all has to do with the MAD principle. The only language every country speaks, even a totalitarian one.