Login is disabled. This forum is read-only.
Imperial Forum → Politics → do not believe his lies
Oh, I see. You voted Wilders...
It's not undemocratic. I don't know about you, but we have special elections for the European council who do all the work, and although I too find the constitution as it is not good enough, I do think a European constitution would be a step in the right direction....
The great constitutions of the world were made before air conditioning
Nothing like hearing somebody spouting the same crap for the 500th time at 4pm when its 100 degrees and humid, to promote compromise and common sense
"Oh, I see. You voted Wilders... "
Spare me your condescending comments, I'm am not some amateur historian that you can look down upon! X(
"I do think a European constitution would be a step in the right direction...."
Towards what, exactly?
> BiefstukFriet wrote:
> Undemocratic because the last time we had a referendum we voted No. Now the Constitution has some lines shuffled around, some words replaced and all of the sudden the goverment approves of it. Why not let us decide via a referendum again? And why did they even bother with one in the first place?
Besides, during the elections the current ruling parties didn't say a word about the constituton in their campaign
PS, I voted Wilders.. 
__________________________________
ANSWER 1:
they now know the majority of their public are not THAT stupid
ANSWER 2:
they thought they could hood-wink (through the media, etc) the parts of the public they thought weren't stupid into voting Yes
![[TI] Primo](https://imperialconflict.com/forum/img/avatars/711.jpg)
actually, being allowed to vote on any little thing possible is not true democracy
you elect people you think are capable of running the country, and by electing them, you tell them you have faith in their political views, all of them, not just the ones you agreed with in their campaign.
The EU constitution is a little thing? The EU has gradually wormed itself into every aspect of everyday life. I do not consider it a small thing and I would like it if my goverment wouldn't be so eager about letting the country be ruled by a foreign institution.
"you tell them you have faith in their political views, all of them, not just the ones you agreed with in their campaign."
Right... If the PvdA or CDA had ran a campaign in which they were very vocal about their support for the EU and it's constitution they wouldn't have their current amount of parlement seats and you know it.
"The EU constitution is a little thing? The EU has gradually wormed itself into every aspect of everyday life. I do not consider it a small thing and I would like it if my goverment wouldn't be so eager about letting the country be ruled by a foreign institution."
in that same light, you shouldn't let your village or city run by an outside national dutch gov?
Stop the non-democratic part. Its undemocratic now and the constitution would fix a lot of things. Do you have a short memory or you just want me to repeat the same story over and over again? Besides, you voted for european elections to didn't you?
"Spare me your condescending comments, I'm am not some amateur historian that you can look down upon!"
but Wilders is
"Spare me your condescending comments, I'm am not some amateur historian that you can look down upon!"
You can't expect me to take Wilders, a clown who claims to be the voice of the common people, serious.
"Towards what, exactly?"
A close organised European Union (preferably a confederation).
"The EU constitution is a little thing? The EU has gradually wormed itself into every aspect of everyday life. I do not consider it a small thing and I would like it if my goverment wouldn't be so eager about letting the country be ruled by a foreign institution."
Most people vote no cause they have no idea what it's about. In my opinion, it's a good thing that in such cases the people you elected make the choices for you. And the constitution won't make your country run from a "foreign institution" (and even that is debatable).
"Besides, you voted for european elections to didn't you?"
Blank vote ftw.
"You can't expect me to take Wilders, a clown who claims to be the voice of the common people, serious."
He has a big enough following and parlement seats to be taken seriously. Not to mention that his anti Muslim stance is just a perk for me. I care more for his Libertarian mindset. I also wanted to give the VVD a kick in the arse. With the threat of Wilders taking away the VVD's voters they're forced to adopt a more rightwing stance.. When that happens I'm back to voting for the VVD.
"Do you have a short memory or you just want me to repeat the same story over and over again?"
We did not come to a conclusion, now did we?
"A close organised European Union (preferably a confederation). "
What are the benefits of such a Union? I'm just to big a Nationalist I suppose.
> [TI] Primo wrote:
> actually, being allowed to vote on any little thing possible is not true democracy
you elect people you think are capable of running the country, and by electing them, you tell them you have faith in their political views, all of them, not just the ones you agreed with in their campaign.
__________________________
We weren't talking about any LITTLE thing.
A constitution is NOT little...it's the BIGGEST thing ever for a country! 
@bief:
"We did not come to a conclusion, now did we?"
so its you who has a short memory
"I'm just to big a Nationalist I suppose."
Maybe. On a personal note: heb je een waarheidsdrank gedronken?:p
Heineken!
"What are the benefits of such a Union? I'm just to big a Nationalist I suppose."
A stronger union has every benefit. It makes a stronger economical field, probably too in international politics. It brings more freedom internally and so on.. Nationalism doesn't have to obstruct europeanism though. It can be combined
I feel European, then Belgian, then Flemish.
We call that FOGI (feeling of groop instinct). You identify yourself with a certain groop of people based on a virtual border. I feel LP, and thats all.
I'm no argent nationalist on any area. But I see the benefits of this "fogi" in all of those groups 
> Alan Statham wrote:
> "What are the benefits of such a Union? I'm just to big a Nationalist I suppose."
A stronger union has every benefit. It makes a stronger economical field, probably too in international politics. It brings more freedom internally and so on.. Nationalism doesn't have to obstruct europeanism though. It can be combined
I feel European, then Belgian, then Flemish.
______________________________________
I feel Heavenian, then Canadian, then Manitoban, then Dutch/German.
Notice that I skipped North American and human/earthian?
Notice how I disregard your post as total off topic
/me settles down with a bowl of popcorn to watch the Eurosoap
Notice how Alan didn't disregard my post or else he wouldn't have commented about it.
"so its you who has a short memory
"I'm just to big a Nationalist I suppose."
Maybe. On a personal note: heb je een waarheidsdrank gedronken?:p"
These days I have had the pleasure of enjoying brews like Mardesous, La Chouffe (sp?) Westmalle Trippel and the obligatory Leffe and Duvel, does that qualify as waarheidsdrank? See how I cleverly explained my lack of a short term memory as well!
our famous first chancelor Konrad Adenauer once made this statement:
"Never ask the people" (over important political matters). this is german policy until today and it works! the mob is in most cases overstrained when it comes to complex decisons. the EU-referendums are the best examples for the decisions of the mob. so never ask them.
lol@bief:
@firewing:
it makes me reconsidder an IQ test for being able to vote.
That would have to be a special IQ test then. It would be a bad thing if people would not be able to vote because they are bad at for instance, mathematics.
I've already been thinking about the drawbacks of such a system bief, but I did not ment it serious this time. You are 100% right tough. A perfect test is impossible to make, or even a good one. This and the possible corruption makes me feel like its not a workable plan.
Imperial Forum → Politics → do not believe his lies
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.