Login is disabled. This forum is read-only.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Russian troops to invade georgia
Yeah, let's put bring them and Ukraine into NATO, set up an Air Force Base in there, and move our 6th Fleet to Odessa. That would really be a punchline!
I said peace keeping forces, not military forces 
.
Besides, as if the U.S. could even touch the Russians . You wouldnt when they slaughtered Georgia, you wont when the next conflict arrises.
So dont act superior to Britain or France. You guys are just as weak as the rest of the world.
No we just have limited options, because that noob George Bush entangled our forces in two countries.
There were a few towns and cities in the 50's who wanted to join the USSR... and never got that chance. Are you saying that the nation which held those towns and cities should have just given those towns and cities away and broken it's hold on those?
I dare Russia's supporters here to answer this one.
> Phoenix Mailer wrote:
> Fokker - have you ever been to Georgia and talked to ordinary people there and asked what they really want ?
I have been there and can tell you that people hate Saakashvili because of many things and they dont give a damn about NATO though they want EU to help them
even in Tbilisi - the capital city of the state they get electricity 2-3 hours per day, those more rich have power generators and chain them so noone can steal them
making business in georgia means giving away your business to the corrupted government officials as soon as they notice your business is succesful - they come to you and simply ask to give 10% of your business, the next time another 10% and so on until they control 90% and you have no profit whatsoever...<
Life is tough in Georgia, how touching. What about Ossetia, is life tough there? Of course you cannot answer, you have not considered both sides of the situation.
Ossetia wanted what it now has, Georgia wanted what it is now guaranteed to get.
What I dont understand is this.
If the contested area was Georgian territory. And it decided to "Break away", .... What is the big deal if Georgia sends its military into its own rogue area ??
Also, what are RUSSIAN troops doing there, on another countries sovereign land ??
ALSO..... Wasnt it just last year that a Russian aircraft shot down a Georgian air craft ??
Now,...... if say Ukraine sent troops to a neighboring Russian province....that some element declared free of Russian rule.....there would be outrage.
Im looking at this from what I gather from the news. It seems like Russia had no business sending troops there to Georgia ... as "Advisers" or "Peace keepers" to begin with.
Wasnt that in fact an escalation of the internal problem in Georgia ??
Sure, maybe as we armchair this situation, we say the Georgian leader handled things wrong. Sure....might be. But, It seems he called the Russian Bet, and the Russian's Decided to raise the stakes by INVADING Georgian lands.
After all, when it comes down to it, Russian Troops invaded Georgia....no matter what the Russians claim.
Im sure Russia has no intention of letting Georgia take over security, or their army to take control of the province/state/area.
Russia seems to be camped out to claim a new territory.
The thing is......just how many bites is Russia allowed to take w/o any one getting alarmed ??
Seems like the Same old Russian/Soviet Bullshit that has gone on for AGES in this region.
Just Russia flexing its muscle on a weak defenseless neighbor that it deems not its "Friend."
After all, stirring up a conflict, DEFINATLY keeps the SPINLESS Leadership of the EU and NATO from wanting to go anywhere near Georgia and bringing them in as a "Partner."
Seems like Russian Military muscle flexing is ok to Europe and NATO, just as it turns a cheek to any conflict that might take leadership and a show of strength.
> No we just have limited options, because that noob George Bush entangled our forces in two countries.
You elected him, ergo your fault.
> There were a few towns and cities in the 50's who wanted to join the USSR...
> and never got that chance. Are you saying that the nation which held those towns
> and cities should have just given those towns and cities away and broken it's hold on those?
This isnt a small village or city [sillyperson], its two entire regions. Both have been working independently of Georgia for over a decade.
I *really* dont know what you have been smoking, since this isnt the 50s and Georgia only has a political hold.
**********************************************************************************
> If the contested area was Georgian territory. And it decided to "Break away", ....
> What is the big deal if Georgia sends its military into its own rogue area ??
1) Georgia decided to do it around the same time as the Olympics were opening.
2) In the process they openly killed Russian peace keepers
3) The area in question fought for independence over a decade ago. The international community just didnt recognise it, thats all.
> Also, what are RUSSIAN troops doing there, on another countries sovereign land ??
They had to ensure the saftey of their own people, as well as the saftey of those people with Russian passports. Are they supposed to sit back and watch these people get slaughtered?
> ALSO..... Wasnt it just last year that a Russian aircraft shot down a Georgian air craft ??
Probably. They have BOTH had minor things against the other like that for a few years now.
> Now,...... if say Ukraine sent troops to a neighboring Russian province....
> that some element declared free of Russian rule.....there would be outrage.
If it was unprovoked, sure. And rightfully so too!
> It seems like Russia had no business sending troops there to Georgia ... as "Advisers" or "Peace keepers" to begin with.
They kept the peace. And anyway, The U.S. and the coalition had no right to invade Iraq either. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
> Wasnt that in fact an escalation of the internal problem in Georgia ??
No. Georgia pushed harder, Russia pushed harder. Mutual engagement for the region, which Georgia was bound to loose.
> But, It seems he called the Russian Bet, and the Russian's Decided to raise the stakes by INVADING Georgian lands.
Looks can be deceiving. Why should Russia limit itself to a small area when the Georgian military is operating from their entire country? I say congradulations to Russia, for nipping this in the butt before too many reinforcements arrived or before the situation got even worse.
> Just Russia flexing its muscle on a weak defenseless neighbor that it deems not its "Friend."
Yeah...defenseless...even though they are the ones who launched this whole campaign.
> Just Russia flexing its muscle on a weak defenseless neighbor that it deems not its "Friend."
Good for 'em, i say.
> Im sure Russia has no intention of letting Georgia take over security, or their army to take control of the province/state/area.
Of course they will. Unlike the Americans, they wont be tied down by the occupation of another country. Or at the very least, international peace keepers will keep the peace for a while.
> Russia seems to be camped out to claim a new territory.
In Georgia itself no. In the two disputed territories, maybe.
> The thing is......just how many bites is Russia allowed to take w/o any one getting alarmed ??
As many as it wants in self-defense.
> a show of strength.
Something the U.S. doesnt appear to have, either.
What exactly were the pictures of an Eastern European soldier and the US soldier supposed to show?
apparently Russia has allied itself with China. this kinda limits the USA's options.
> Justinian I wrote:
> No we just have limited options, because that noob George Bush entangled our forces in two countries.
_______________________
Worthy of bumpage
> Einstein wrote:
> There were a few towns and cities in the 50's who wanted to join the USSR... and never got that chance. Are you saying that the nation which held those towns and cities should have just given those towns and cities away and broken it's hold on those?
I dare Russia's supporters here to answer this one.
_____________________________________________
no response yet?
> paul valter pihlo wrote:
> "In the end I think russians are right when they now demand eorgian president to retire.
He has prooven he is insane and willing to run his country into a full scale war.. for nothing."
The russians have no right to demand the retirement of a democraticaly elected government.
They've done this last year with my country when our government moved a communist statue from the middle of the city to an occupation cemetary.
The georgians have asked russia many times to remove their troops from georgian lands but they didn't do so. A country with a democratic government and army doesn't need *peacekeapig* forces in it's land. Besides no countries(not evenrussia) have recognised S.Ossetias independance.
____________________________________________________
Canada doesn't recognize Quebec independance
but I guess that's not the same thing. 
News just in:
Ukraine has placed restrictions on the Russian Black Sea Fleet which is based at Sevastopol, Ukraine
why is this important?
Sevastapol is in the Crimea a region of the Ukraine which is Russian-speaking & pro-Russian. It has historical ties to Russia too. It was in 1954 when for administrative purposes the Crimea region was tranferred from the Russian Federative Soviet Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
Russia may want it back- or at the very least Sevastapol
"Besides, as if the U.S. could even touch the Russians ."
We could wreck their economy and all they could do is launch nukes, or nothing.
"You wouldnt when they slaughtered Georgia, you wont when the next conflict arrises."
I'm sure Putin counts on it.
"So dont act superior to Britain or France. You guys are just as weak as the rest of the world."
We're not that weak, but if we won't kill our enemies, then we might as well be.
"This isnt a small village or city [sillyperson], its two entire regions. Both have been working independently of Georgia for over a decade.
I *really* dont know what you have been smoking, since this isnt the 50s and Georgia only has a political hold."
So what? It's Georgia, and Georgia is our pal.
"They had to ensure the saftey of their own people, as well as the saftey of those people with Russian passports. Are they supposed to sit back and watch these people get slaughtered?"
They issued Russian passports to this "independent" population who they also don't recognize.
"They kept the peace."
They fronted for the buildup of separatist armies and coordinated their operations. Heard of Russian units firing on Akzakian or Ossetian troops? No? That means they got the same radio net. WE learned that the hard way in Grenada in 1983. This is a pure KGB maskirovka, just like the Afghan "appeal" for Soviet paratroopers in 1979.
"And anyway, The U.S. and the coalition had no right to invade Iraq either. Desperate times call for desperate measures."
Apart from the rules of that Mickey Mouse organization in Turtle Bay, Saddam violated the terms of the ceasefire he gave Schwarzkopf.
"Why should Russia limit itself to a small area when the Georgian military is operating from their entire country? I say congradulations to Russia, for nipping this in the butt before too many reinforcements arrived or before the situation got even worse."
And I look forward to Indonesian liberation of indigenous peoples from Australian oppression. By force.
"In Georgia itself no. In the two disputed territories, maybe."
Yeah so the Kremlin said. The Kremlin lies through its ass, who'd have thought? Russians are looting Gori right now.
"As many as it wants in self-defense."
About sixty years too late for this attitude aren't you? You owe a big apology to Guadacanal vets for the aggression against the Divine Emperor that necessitated the bombing of Sydney harbor.
I'll agree though Skoe, we clearly ignored the need to kill our enemies without reference to French "mediation" that won't even name an aggressor here. We know it doesn't work and our leadership doesn't care, apparently. We do have enough force outside Iraq to shred 3 Russian armor divisions in Georgia, and that's all that's needed right now.
Oh, and next time you complain "USA won't send peacekeepers to Polynesia" print it out, roll it real tight, and shove it out of sight.
"funny. here i was remembering distinctly that germany fought against soviet union in the 40's too.." Yes, in the 40's. In 1939 though you were glad to take the arms.
It was Dick Cheney who waved green light to Saakashvili to launch attack on Tschinvali
Now everyone admits it was a miscalculated avanture
Fortunately for georgians russian authorities are reasonable people unlike US neocon warmongers
> 
sKoE )= wrote:
> I said peace keeping forces, not military forces .
Besides, as if the U.S. could even touch the Russians . You wouldnt when they slaughtered Georgia, you wont when the next conflict arrises.
So dont act superior to Britain or France. You guys are just as weak as the rest of the world.
well all i need to say about this comment is your eu needs to get off thier asses and show some balls.
us americans cant keep doing the job when you lazy euro`s cant even keep a bully from picking on its neighbor.
its your crisis so deal with it!
"ALSO..... Wasnt it just last year that a Russian aircraft shot down a Georgian air craft ??"
>Probably. They have BOTH had minor things against the other like that for a few years now.<
_____
They shot down a spy plane, as far as I know it is still unknown as to where the spyplane was at the time.
"Wasnt it just last year that a Russian aircraft shot down a Georgian air craft ??"
it was an israeli made spy aircraft. These days russians shoot these things down daily - the last one was shot today over Tschinvali. Russians already complained to Israel for weaponizing Georgia
The Bear: "How dare you arm our prey!"
US is sending humanitarian mission with an embassy-evacuation force. Huzzah.
Condi rice is going to France to see if Georgia can collapse before she gets there, if not, she'll have to go there and ask them to fall down. Huzzah.
> TheYell wrote:
> The Bear: "How dare you arm our prey!"
US is sending humanitarian mission with an embassy-evacuation force. Huzzah.
Condi rice is going to France to see if Georgia can collapse before she gets there, if not, she'll have to go there and ask them to fall down. Huzzah.<
Why are you looking for a bad side to this? Are people not allowed to get what they want in Yellville?
just from the beeb
1. they aren't russian citizens just because they hold russian passports. if that was allowed, it would be a great way to gain casus belli and fulfill territorial ambitions. (the story is, russia just passed out russian passports in the georgian breakaway provinces.)...in reply to one of phoenix's early posts.
2. russians were there peace-keeping as a result of an agreement with georgia signed by the new georgia's first president (who was also the USSR's last foreign minister).
Heh. I want a Russian passport too!
"Why are you looking for a bad side to this? Are people not allowed to get what they want in Yellville?"
What people? Vladimir Putin and the KGB?
Imperial Forum → Politics → Russian troops to invade georgia
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.