Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Just a little question (without implications) for the people who seem to know everything on the military subject: Is the US capable of deploying even more troops in any conflict nowadays, as it is already deployed heavily in Afghanistan and Iraq? Because it seems to me that one of the reasons the US wouldn't be capable of intervening is due to being over-streched already...


"lol does the rest of the world really care about this?  to me this was more of a side note to the Olympics and michael phelps."

The whole reason why the conflict is now ignated, the public opinion is distracted with bread and games and has problems with keeping it's mind on 2 different subjects at the same time...

127

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Israel Worried over Russian Reaction To Aid to Georgia

(IsraelNN.com) Israel is worried over possible Russian diplomatic retaliation for Israel aid to Georgia, and the Foreign Ministry has suggested halting all military aid to the country. Speculation has risen that Israel has armed Georgia because of a vested interest in Georgia pipelines that pump oil destined for Israeli ports.

Israel earlier this year announced it was reducing aid and sending to Georgia only defensive military equipment. The Foreign Ministry fears that continued Israeli aid to Georgia would make it more difficult to discourage Russia from shipping anti-aircraft missiles to Iran.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/151197

The inmates are running the asylum

128

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Which is probably why Putin planned it for when he did.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

129 (edited by EmperorHez 10-Aug-2008 15:33:14)

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Georgia has pulled out from South Ossetia. It was simply a matter of time they were overwhelmed by Russian forces.

the real irony in all this of course is that the Russians accuse the Georgians of genocide in S Ossetia (which may well be true) but the Russians are guilty of that crime in Chechnya.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

130

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

http://streaming.visionip.tv/Russia_Today

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Is this "Russia Today" a state owned Russian broadcast....in English ?

This "Genocide" theme is really over the top. 



To be honest here, I still have no clue what is going on in this area of conflict.  Each side is accusing the other of aggression and genocide.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

ok ill summarize:

Georgia invades S Ossetia taking Russian peacekeepers & S Ossetian security forces by surprise. capital city of the province is shelled by Georgia & quickly taken. Russia responds by invading from the North. well equipped & trained Georgian troops halt the Russian advance for many hours, but numbers of Russians pouring into the region increase, Russia begins utilizing increasing numbers of aircraft attacking targets inside & outside of S Ossetia. Situation of Georgian forces in the capital become untenable as Russian artillery & airpower backed up by overwhelming numbers of armour & mechanized infantry threatens to wipe them out. heavy fighting is seen in & around the capital. Georgian forces pull out from capital. Georgia then makes the sensible decision to retreat from S Ossetia. Russians currently claim that Georgia still has some troops inside the region. Georgia sues for peace. Russia continues to fight. launching air strikes on Tbilisi & other targets outside of S Ossetia. Georgian ship is sunk in the black sea by Russian navy. thats pretty much it so far.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

ok....

What was reason Georgia invaded in the first place ??
Is this a contested region going back since Soviet break up ??  Or other reasons for Georgia to invade ??


Usually the movement of refugees tell you who the people side with.....refugees are heading into Russia.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

S Ossetia had a rebel group pretty much succeed in a revolution a number of years ago, but not one nation other than Russia recognized them (Funded by Russia, trained by Russia, Equipped by Russia the rebels easily defeated the nearly not armed army of Georgia way back when, thus why no nations recognized it).

Georgia apparently thought the timing was right to kick the rebels arse, and they handily did so. However apparently they also did some underhandedness to some Russian "peacekeepers" capturing a number in the process.

However I would note this conflict has been going on for a while, since Russia has made at least 1 air attack into Georgia and has made ugly noises about gas prices might hike up if Georgia was admitted to NATO.


Turkey and Israel are somewhat backing Georgia but cautiously, and the United States backs them also... which says how Russia feels in several ways. A tangled web.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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135

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

> Newb wrote:

> > Deci wrote:

> > Newb wrote:

> now, if only one seriously considered that possibility, they may not have their heads stuck in the sand and miss out on what may actually be happening.

still waiting to hear the reason why european union would want to see the demise of united states, one of their biggest trading partners. got any? or are you a conspiracy wacko?
________________________________________________
>>> NewB wrote:

> You're still waiting because you didn't ask.
I'll answer you but you'll have to wait.
I logged in here too late.

Are you an anti-conspiracy wacko? wink
________________________________________
>>> Newb is writing:

> Why would the European Union would want to see the demise of the United States?

"One" word answer:  Power/Control/Jealousy

a little longer answer:  so they are no longer "playing" 2nd/3rd/4th "fiddle"

an even longer answer can be found at the following link (not my persuasion...this one indirectly favors the EU and indirectly condemns the US):

http://www.europesworld.org/EWSettings/Article/tabid/78/Default.aspx?Id=0e38b09b-a00b-4168-bee2-ef4b0ad18ab8

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

136

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

> Einstein wrote:

> S Ossetia had a rebel group pretty much succeed in a revolution a number of years ago, but not one nation other than Russia recognized them (Funded by Russia, trained by Russia, Equipped by Russia the rebels easily defeated the nearly not armed army of Georgia way back when, thus why no nations recognized it).

Georgia apparently thought the timing was right to kick the rebels arse, and they handily did so. However apparently they also did some underhandedness to some Russian "peacekeepers" capturing a number in the process.

However I would note this conflict has been going on for a while, since Russia has made at least 1 air attack into Georgia and has made ugly noises about gas prices might hike up if Georgia was admitted to NATO.


Turkey and Israel are somewhat backing Georgia but cautiously, and the United States backs them also... which says how Russia feels in several ways. A tangled web.
____________________________
Looks like a tangled web.

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me tongue
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

137

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

> This "Genocide" theme is really over the top.

Agreed. Unless the Russians pull out some solid evidence that there *was* indeed genocide, in its actual definition of the word.

> well equipped & trained Georgian troops halt the Russian advance for many hours, but numbers of Russians pouring into the region increase

Yep. Georgia knows that there troops are better equipped and trained - which is why they tried to cut off Russian reinforcements. The Russians could only bring in so many vehicles at a time.

> Georgian ship is sunk in the black sea by Russian navy.

Oh ok, i thought i read that was done in the Caspian.

> Is this a contested region going back since Soviet break up ??

There are two regions, both are internationally 'Georgia'. However, both have seperatist governements that have been operating since the collapse of the U.S.S.R (When these seperatists fought Georgia).

> Usually the movement of refugees tell you who the people side with.....refugees are heading into Russia.

Agreed, but they know that Georgia is screwed. The warzone is moving south, so the logical decision would to move north (Opposite direction of the fighting).

> Turkey and Israel are somewhat backing Georgia...

Kinda. They are, but they arent. Israel has slowly been reducing its support for Georgia over time, and now because of this they will reduce their support even more. They need Russia to keep Iran at bay (amoung other things).

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Daily Telegraph reports somebody on the US NationalSecurity Council says we need Russia to rein in Iran so we can't bother them with a localized war in Georgia. So we have to hope diplomacy works!

Dumbass  Judas.

(Link is obn drudgereport)

Meanwhile the Russian Foriegn Minister tells Condi Rice that the elected President of georgia has to go.

If Bush had our interests in mind we'd have 200 fighter bombers in Georgia tomorrow ready to slaughter Russian tanks. That would do more to end this war than 2000 diplomats.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

"Usually the movement of refugees tell you who the people side with.....refugees are heading into Russia."

Doesn't that usually tell you where they think they're safest?

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

"they dont need technology -- they have numbers."

This way of thinking went out of date eighty years ago.

Je maintiendrai

141

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

"This way of thinking went out of date eighty years ago."

Looking at the conflict, this way of thinking is obviously still valid today.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

"> Meanwhile the Russian Foriegn Minister tells Condi Rice that the elected President of georgia has to go."


he i annoying... anyone watched the interwies with him on CNN?

first day he actuall claimed that there were never any Georgien soldiers in Ostsetia at all
that this is all made up.. that he is the victim..

kind of stupid mostly because he anounced a few hours earlier bevor russia invaded that his troops controll most of Ostsetia after heavy fighting...

Tobi

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

> sad sKoE )= wrote:

> "This way of thinking went out of date eighty years ago."

Looking at the conflict, this way of thinking is obviously still valid today.


Looking at the Chechnian conflict, this way of thinking isn't valid. Russia is terrible at countering Asymmetric warfare. The Georgians are stupidly using the wrong tactics.

Je maintiendrai

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

@bief:
Some people say the experiance from that war in combination with other equipment could improve there skills in this kind of warfare but personally I don't have a clue.

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

No, they're using military tactics tongue

The Chechnians don't have an organised army, and are guerilla troops who strike where they can. This is indeed a rather good strategy, but it doesn't work in the short run, it just ties the situation and makes it into a struggle that lasts for years without any evolution. Besides, the russians could easily cripple the georgian guerillas as they're not "underground"..

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

The reason the EU can't act is because of energy blackmail. The reason the US can't act is the same as during the cold war. The russians have thermo-nuclear missiles. I can't blame them. But I do blame the EU for falling asleep and not caring about energy dependance to a despotism.

147 (edited by BiefstukFriet 11-Aug-2008 11:12:29)

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Is there not  (or are there plans for) an oil/gas pipeline running through Georgia that delivers gas to Europe without Russian interferance?

Je maintiendrai

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

This energy intrests lies at the very core of all things bief smile.

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

"The reason the EU can't act is because of energy blackmail. The reason the US can't act is the same as during the cold war. The russians have thermo-nuclear missiles. I can't blame them. But I do blame the EU for falling asleep and not caring about energy dependance to a despotism."

It should be noted that both the French and German foreign minister are setting up a framework for negociations.

"Is there not  (or are there plans for) an oil/gas pipeline running through Georgia that delivers gas to Europe without Russian interferance?"

I seriously doubt that.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Russian troops to invade georgia

Georiga is an US-backyard state. its army is trained by US-instructors and the armed forces financed by US funds. the USA trained the georgians for this war, but they failed. it should have been a blitzkrieg, but now the gerorgians will be invaded and conquered. russian prime minister Putin wants to show the world, that he is still in command and not his puppet the russian president. the logic is simple: if gerorgia would have won, russia would be humiliated, because their protectorate would be lost. but now the opposite happens. russia is gathering forces in the region until it can easily overrun the gerogian forces and conquer the whole nation turning this strategic state into a protectorate of russia. the USA would be blamed for not able to defend allied nations and would lose much credit in the region. we must remember that this region is strategic for oil/gas, iran (nuclear weapons program) and iraq.
the US has 2 options: 1. go in and negotiate, 2. stay out and negotiate.
1. would save the face of US ambitions in the area, but risk a war with russia.
2. would save the US of another "peacekeeping" mission, but risk all diplomatic successes of the past 7-19 years.

for the EU this episode is crucial. is the US still able to lead us, or draw in the horns in the face of russia? if the US loses Georgia it would be time to think about new global strategic alliances to keep the peace and prosperity in europe with or without the weakening USA (overstrechted, lame-duck president, elections). 

this is good old cold war play. remember the "domino" theory of Eisenhower? georgia is the first stone...