Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

Yes it was. With the rise of the cities in the 11th to 14th century, serfdom was abandonned for more commercial-orientated surplus extraction system. During the 12th century, serfdom had disappeared almost everywhere. Eastern European countries with low urbanisation like Poland however did suffer a 2nd serfdom, wich came to rise in the 16th century..

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

In that case they're awfully wrong.

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

Serfdom ended in Russia in 1863.  For western Europe I don't know exactly, because if you find a spot that still had serfs in 1600, then wiki would be right.  But it wasn't over in France as early as 1300.  Serfdom had powerful protections for the poor.  It guaranteed them access to one source of lordly justice, it barred other neighboring lords from intruding on their lives-- you couldn't just rob a village of the gentes ducem without answering to the Duke for messing with his people, and screwing with the gentes regem meant a national war with the King and whatever nobles wanted to loot you.  Also, if the gentes ducem came across a nice meadow and a rich forest and decided to set up a village there, that meant the Duke had rights to that wealth too--so the Duke loved it if his serfs went out and beat the crap out of freeholders and took their land.  And who could a freeholder complain to?  Complain to the King about how the Duke was acting?  The King needed to keep the Duke happy, that's how you stay King.  Economics wasn't the only factor (silly Annalist) the degree of violence and disorder promoted a system of protection and guarantees of farmland, and when order and tranquility was more present, the system wasn't as useful to lord or serf.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

the irish were slaves to the british much later then the 12th century....

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

They were not slaves, they were free to leave anytime!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

"the irish were slaves to the british much later then the 12th century...."

Hardly, the irish upper social layers were just britishized and assimilated, wich made the catholic irish people a politically numb crowd indeed. But they weren't actually slaves..

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

Well, if you ask me, race will no longer be an issue when you have to fill out "Ethnic Background" on any sort of paperwork.

158 (edited by paul valter pihlo 04-Aug-2008 09:24:22)

Re: Are black peope discriminated against?

"Serfdom was virtually abolished in the 12th century.."

I'm not so sure when it was abolished in w.europe but theres no way it was abolished in 12th century at the high time of the knight who needed serfs for food. even If it did go in the 15th century then it had already lasted from 5th to 15th century aka 1000 years. and serfs were slaves.They weren't allowed to leave the land, they could be beaten(but not killed). In my language slave is ori and serf is p

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