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Imperial Forum → Politics → "The Great Global Warming Swindle" Was A Swindle
"If the polar ice caps are melting.....and the glaciers are disappearing.....
Where is all water from the melting Ice ??"
Uhm...there is a lot less beach all along the Jersey Shore than there was 10-15 years ago. This might be an answer to your question BW...
"Scientist deal in facts. Scientists do not deal in Mob rules.
Scientists deal in Statistical deviations w/i the acceptable parameters.......Its a fact that X will cause Y.
But, with this global warming fallacy....we deal with groups of like minded individuals with a "Theory.""
All of the scientific "facts" we know and understand today began as a Hypothesis - or a "theory". It's called the Scientific Method.
80 years ago, Sir Alexander Flemming did not know for a FACT that a certain bread mold would kill bacteria; something led him to believe that and form a hypothesis, and experimentation over the years confirmed it as fact. Sure, global warming might be a theory now; but it may very well become a fact in the future. Or it might not.
In the meantime, keep driving that truck of yours; you probably don't mind throwing your money away on the gasoline. You might not be contributing anything the the "fallacy," but you're sure as hell wasting your own money.
There is a section of Oregon still suffering extremely under our snow packs.
Now for the worst timed headline in the world!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004157490_warmwater01.html
Note they had doomsday predictions for the snowpack?
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1201935308295190.xml&coll=7
http://www.nbc10.com/news/15214786/detail.html
http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2008/02/04/news/regional/d07cd7093020a776872573e20060af5d.txt
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/02/04/State_uses_helicopter_to_cause_avalanches/UPI-24971202159585/
Start looking at our snow pack
http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/interactive/html/map.html?mode=pan&zoom=¢er_x=+-123.81¢er_y=+++44.78&ql=station&var=ssm_depth&dy=2008&dm=2&dd=5&dh=23&snap=1&o9=1&o12=1&o13=1&lbl=m&min_x=-123.99208333332&min_y=41.171667353307&max_x=-116.48374999999&max_y=46.80500068664&coord_x=-120.237916666655&coord_y=43.9883340199735&zbox_n=&zbox_s=&zbox_e=&zbox_w=&metric=0&bgvar=dem&width=600&height=450&nw=600&nh=450&type=0&js=1&uc=0
Yeah it was that big
Now then, to talk about this subject we can see that real science is ignored for 'modeling' science.
Cosmic Radiation has been shown, been PROVEN to produce clouds and to be the source of moisture condensing into clouds, and he dismisses it out of hand. Seems to me that clouds produce an effect where they bounce heat back out of our atmosphere...
Lets talk weather for real however.
Ever hear of the Dustbowl?
Ok now that I have your attention, lets talk more.
What sort of flooding occured to shove Italians up to higher ground, and most med sea persons as well? In historic times that is.
Now how bout glaciers?
Click the link here to see the list of growing and NEW glaciers
http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm
Contrary to popular belief in climatic stability during recent times, the Earth's
climate of the past 1000 years has changed significantly.
The Medieval climatic optimum (AD 700-1200) was a time of extremely
favorable climate in northern Europe. Harvests were good, fishing was abundant,
sea ice remained far to the north, vineyards flourished 300 miles north of their
present limits, and famine was rare. This was the period of great Viking expansion
from Scandinavia. Viking settlements were based on cereal grains (wheat and
barley) and dairy herds (goats, sheep, and cattle).
Iceland began settling in AD 874 and soon became an independent republic.
Greenland was colonized in AD 985 by Erik the Red. By the 12th century,
two sizeable communities existed in southwestern Greenland.
During the Medieval climatic optimum, sea level stood at least a half meter
higher in southern Florida than today from the first through tenth centuries.
In other words, sea levels in the Atlantic have fallen at least
19 inches in the last 1,000 years.
Climatic deterioration began in the 1200s; glaciers expanded in Iceland and in
the Alps. Vineyards began declining in Germany and by the 1300s had completely
disappeared in England. Fishing replaced cereal grains as the main source of food
in Iceland, and sea ice expanded southward between Greenland and Iceland.
Around 1340-50 the more northerly of the two Greenland communities was
abandoned to the Inuits. By 1510, only Inuits remained. Cold climate reduced
dairy production, and extensive sea ice hampered essential trade with Europe.
Across the Pacific Islands, during the period AD 1270-1475, sea level fell
by more than a meter and temperatures declined an average 1
> Einstein wrote:
> There is a section of Oregon still suffering extremely under our snow packs.
Now for the worst timed headline in the world!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004157490_warmwater01.html
Note they had doomsday predictions for the snowpack?
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1201935308295190.xml&coll=7
http://www.nbc10.com/news/15214786/detail.html
http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2008/02/04/news/regional/d07cd7093020a776872573e20060af5d.txt
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/02/04/State_uses_helicopter_to_cause_avalanches/UPI-24971202159585/
Start looking at our snow pack
http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/interactive/html/map.html?mode=pan&zoom=¢er_x=+-123.81¢er_y=+++44.78&ql=station&var=ssm_depth&dy=2008&dm=2&dd=5&dh=23&snap=1&o9=1&o12=1&o13=1&lbl=m&min_x=-123.99208333332&min_y=41.171667353307&max_x=-116.48374999999&max_y=46.80500068664&coord_x=-120.237916666655&coord_y=43.9883340199735&zbox_n=&zbox_s=&zbox_e=&zbox_w=&metric=0&bgvar=dem&width=600&height=450&nw=600&nh=450&type=0&js=1&uc=0
Yeah it was that big<
I see you're still clinging desperately to the misnomer of Global Warming, which your argument depends on for survival. If we lefties have the spine/brains to admit it is a misnomer and that we should have called it Climate Change from the beginning, why cant you have the spine/brains to accept that?
In spite of your faults I thought you were smarter than this... I hate being wrong.
>Now then, to talk about this subject we can see that real science is ignored for 'modeling' science.
Cosmic Radiation has been shown, been PROVEN to produce clouds and to be the source of moisture condensing into clouds, and he dismisses it out of hand. Seems to me that clouds produce an effect where they bounce heat back out of our atmosphere...<
If you're going to keep dragging this tired old argument out could you have the sense to wait untill everyone has forgotten about how it got flattened by a real scientist on this very forum?
But still:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3419975.stm
"The Eos authors, led by Stefan Rahmstorf from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, Germany, say the paper by Shaviv and Veizer was "incorrect and based on questionable methodology".
They say the data on cosmic rays and temperature so far in the past are extremely uncertain.
They argue that the authors' reconstruction of ancient cosmic rays is based on only 50 meteorites, and say most other experts interpret their significance in a very different way.
Arguing that Shaviv and Veizer had in places adjusted the data, "in one case by 40 million years", the Eos team says they did not show any correlation between cosmic rays and climate.
And even if their analysis had been methodologically correct, it says, their work applied to time scales of several million years, while the current climate warming has occurred during just a hundred years, for which completely different mechanisms are relevant.
Dr Shaviv told BBC News Online: "The article in Eos raises general claims without substantiating them with any actual evidence. The few more specific arguments that they bring are simply flawed and easily refuted.""
>Lets talk weather for real however.
Ever hear of the Dustbowl?<
You mean the time when American farmers over farming activities reduced a great swathe of your country to Sub-Saharan conditions? Let me guess; That was cosmic rays too? I suppose it's possible, IF your own Government's reports are leftist lies, which is unlikely as back then you Americans developed nervous tics at the mere sight of the colour red.
>What sort of flooding occured to shove Italians up to higher ground, and most med sea persons as well? In historic times that is.<
How historic? Too historic to be relevant?
>Now how bout glaciers?
Click the link here to see the list of growing and NEW glaciers
http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm<
You, and whatever idiot wrote that article, clearly have no idea how glaciers work, as well as insiting on working under the misnomer Global Warming.
>Contrary to popular belief in climatic stability during recent times, the Earth's
climate of the past 1000 years has changed significantly.
The Medieval climatic optimum (AD 700-1200) was a time of extremely
favorable climate in northern Europe. Harvests were good, fishing was abundant,
sea ice remained far to the north, vineyards flourished 300 miles north of their
present limits, and famine was rare. This was the period of great Viking expansion
from Scandinavia. Viking settlements were based on cereal grains (wheat and
barley) and dairy herds (goats, sheep, and cattle).
Iceland began settling in AD 874 and soon became an independent republic.
Greenland was colonized in AD 985 by Erik the Red. By the 12th century,
two sizeable communities existed in southwestern Greenland.
During the Medieval climatic optimum, sea level stood at least a half meter
higher in southern Florida than today from the first through tenth centuries.
In other words, sea levels in the Atlantic have fallen at least
19 inches in the last 1,000 years.
Climatic deterioration began in the 1200s; glaciers expanded in Iceland and in
the Alps. Vineyards began declining in Germany and by the 1300s had completely
disappeared in England. Fishing replaced cereal grains as the main source of food
in Iceland, and sea ice expanded southward between Greenland and Iceland.
Around 1340-50 the more northerly of the two Greenland communities was
abandoned to the Inuits. By 1510, only Inuits remained. Cold climate reduced
dairy production, and extensive sea ice hampered essential trade with Europe.
Across the Pacific Islands, during the period AD 1270-1475, sea level fell
by more than a meter and temperatures declined an average 1
And the whole reason of my post is to show [a flamboyant, jolly, moderatly good looking, art-loving, lawnmower] like you a simple truth.
There is no proof, and many possible reasons, to many to consider.
When will you understand this?
Flint, please don't call people idiots for having a different - and most likely a scientificly more correct - opinion, that would be flaming; and a bit hypocrite as you usually complain about people flaming you 
Hear, hear!
I think it is safe to assume this conversation is over... Ahh, nothing like a cup of Earl Grey to ease the machine into motion.
> ☭ Fokker wrote:
> Full Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7517444.stm
Basically last year Channel 4 ran a programme called "The Great Global Warming Swindle" which has since been soundly trounced, along with it's evidence (If one can still call it evidence).
__________
I'm glad; closer to the truth one step at a time.
I'm also sick, sick of people hiding under the coinspiracy umbrella because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions and don't have the intelligence to realise, or the courage to admit, that the measures being proposed are supposed to do more than simply stave off global warming/climate chance/al gores lie, but will ultimately make our world cleaner, more efficient, and make us not so dependant on high energy-requirement machines to get us through the day.
End rant.
________________________________________________________
Ummm, there's no valid question that there's global warming on earth
but
what percentage of it is caused by humans?
Don't you know ALL of our solar system's planets are experiencing globabl warming?
We humans are guilty though of making a bad situation a little/alot worse.
@ Newb
Next time, read the thread.
"If we lefties have the spine/brains to admit it is a misnomer and that we should have called it Climate Change from the beginning, why cant you have the spine/brains to accept that?
In spite of your faults I thought you were smarter than this... I hate being wrong."
Because the POLITICAL MOVEMENT is based on the FACT, the PROVEN SYSTEM, the GLOBAL CONSENSUS around GLOBAL WARMING.
Now it turns out they can't predict whether it cools or warms but we should enact the SAME POLICIES.
Nuts!
And as for the Eos authors that is just pathetic really. "Oh yes you track a global climate mechanism but it CAN'T be operating on this time scale"
Yes of course it can't be anything seen before in action. It must be SOMETHING TOTALLY NEW changing the climate. That is not scientific argument that is circular reasoning. "We are experiencing something new because everything old is implausible!!"
> ? Fokker wrote:
> @ Newb
Next time, read the thread.
______________________________
lol, i was wondering when someone would point that out.
> TheYell wrote:
> "If we lefties have the spine/brains to admit it is a misnomer and that we should have called it Climate Change from the beginning, why cant you have the spine/brains to accept that?
In spite of your faults I thought you were smarter than this... I hate being wrong."
Because the POLITICAL MOVEMENT is based on the FACT, the PROVEN SYSTEM, the GLOBAL CONSENSUS around GLOBAL WARMING.
Now it turns out they can't predict whether it cools or warms but we should enact the SAME POLICIES.
Nuts!
And as for the Eos authors that is just pathetic really. "Oh yes you track a global climate mechanism but it CAN'T be operating on this time scale"
Yes of course it can't be anything seen before in action. It must be SOMETHING TOTALLY NEW changing the climate. That is not scientific argument that is circular reasoning. "We are experiencing something new because everything old is implausible!!"
___________________________________________________________________
One of the few times I agree with you.
Newb..... I like your use of Caps. 
Nice, I like.
Amazing, how the globe survived ALL those Mega Forrest fires that happen all the time.
No fire stopping development,
no controlled burns.
no Forest clearing....just a good old fashioned burn off.
All of those carbons, released into the atmosphere, that destroyed the atmosphere.......
Or did it ??
Arene we, man, STOPPING this natural occurrence ?
I say, let it all burn....burn baby.
This is just one of a few examples of NATURAL occurrences, that have done little to nothing to the world on a perm basis.
Sure, mega volcanoes have altered the natural cycle of weather patterns for years at a time.....noted in geology and in ancient history.
Did it permanently alter the Earths existence ?? Nooo.... Didnt plunge us into an irreversible Ice age, or some global furnace w/mega ocean flooding.
People. Please. Global warming is a leftist assault on the free-Market system.
More power to the Govt. to regulate, and punish.
Evil Corporations are more than willing to accommodate the leftists....its when the radicals make unreachable short-term idiotic goals that there is a major problem.
Problem is, you Environmental Wackoes seem to think, Us right-wing ogres care less about the environment.....
You are wrong.
I love nature.
I like to see a lot of furry and feathery critters, that make good targets for shooting, and eating.
I love to have an abundant ocean of fish I can catch and trophy or eat.
I just like to have factories belting out the needs and luxuries of a vibrant nation as well.
After all, if you wish to live like a monkey,......then so be it......find a nice peace of jungle, and live like a monkey.
Why bother pontificating to us all your wacked out THEORY of hollow nonsense ?
>>Arene we, man, STOPPING this natural occurrence ?
I say, let it all burn....burn baby.<<
You never had to smell 1000 sq miles of burnt pine tar for a month!! 
> Black_Wing wrote:
> Newb..... I like your use of Caps. Nice, I like.
....
Global warming is a leftist assault on the free-Market system.
More power to the Govt. to regulate, and punish.
....
______________________________________________________
I hardly ever use Caps...is that what you were talking about? lol
On a more serious note:
Yes it is true that "Global warming is a leftist assault on the free-Market system.
More power to the Govt. to regulate, and punish" and to promote (in the long-term) a one-world government (of loose alliances over the whole world) led by an angel and/or human!
BUT IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT
anti-global warming rhetoric is a rightist assualt on the freedoms of individuals for the benefit of worldwide corporations, evil or not. More power to the rightist governments to unregulate and punish those against them.
Both extreme sides are playing unfair to each other and to the rest of the world!!!!!!!
Rightest assault on individual freedom ?
Im just worried about Personal Freedom. Thats all.
yeah you wan't to limit it, so you can stamp out "terrorism"
hmmmm....
How did global warming, go to Stamping out personal Freedom and Terrorism ?? ROFL.
The US Govt. has done a fine job of protecting US Citizens from attack abroad, and I am as free as ever.
Please back up your point.
> Black_Wing wrote:
> hmmmm....
How did global warming, go to Stamping out personal Freedom and Terrorism ?? ROFL.
The US Govt. has done a fine job of protecting US Citizens from attack abroad, and I am as free as ever.
Please back up your point.
____________________________________
They've initiated actions to start the process.
This takes time.
If they did it overtly (like Germany did prior to Hitler's war) then all the law-abiding gun-toting American citizens would storm the White House.
So patience and strategy (including diversion tactics) is the key...
That's the short version.
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