@ Acolyte

Im in absolute agreement.

I can tolerate a touch of Liberalism in my conservatives.  Im not oblivious to the need of the state to administer my Tax dollars to the affirmed and short-term help for the destitute.  I understand there must be roads and bridges maintained as well, Of course you need a large and cutting edge military to keep our national interests secure.

To run a democratic Republic, you must compromise some of your minor positions to strengthen your important positions.
I understand this as well.

You dont have to lie in bed w/Ted Kennedy, but sometimes you must shake his hand in public.
Problem is, most of these US liberals will shake your arm clear off your body.

Kerry does not support the war by the way.  You dont call US Soldiers the Gestapo of the night when you support a conflict.
He ran against the war, and tried to look like a war hero anti-war protester.   Go figure.

My premise is.........back on topic......there is no such thing as Moderate or Centrist.  There is none.
You are either LEFT or RIGHT.   Liberal or Conservative.

Most in Govt. are Liberals....because in Govt, with there bloated Budgets that expand even larger every year.....comes their power.   Because when they control the budget, they wield the power of position.

I NEVER see a shrinking budget.  Never a politician comes out and says...we did more w/less.
To run a business, is in no comparison to run a Govt.

Leftists and Govt. are inefficient

More later, but I had to ask something...

"I can tolerate a touch of Liberalism in my conservatives.  Im not oblivious to the need of the state to administer my Tax dollars to the affirmed and short-term help for the destitute.  I understand there must be roads and bridges maintained as well, Of course you need a large and cutting edge military to keep our national interests secure."

Acolyte, is Black_Wing a socialist?

BTW this thread grew way faster than I expected.  I have 3 pages of reading to do

avogadro,
To my understanding [US] conservatives believe in almost complete freedom both economic and personal.  Capatalism will "magically" sort out the market and the government has no right invading personal privacy.

But liberals desire some of the personal freedoms as the conservatives do. but also want some form of a nanny state with seat belts and some free health care.  And believe that the market is not just enough to completely self regulate.

Zarf BeebleBrix: "Acolyte, is Black_Wing a socialist?"

Yes, to an extent; the term "useful idiot" has a lot of relevance in his case.

Alright, we're making progress.

Black_Wing, do you believe you are a socialist?

there is no moderate...u can be a libertarian or an authoritarian if u want to take some poolicies from the right and some from the left.

for example i would be a libertarian because i want more economic freedom and more social freedom.
i support gay marraige...abortion....less cencorship and less programs like patriot act.
i also support less taxes. less government intervention in economic things. i beleive government is innefficient etc...

u can also be authoritarian if u support less economic and less social freedoms.

There is no left, only that which you decide is left...

Acoylte considers you socialist, you consider yourself hard right...what does that say about left/right definitions?

BW this is a retarded argument...

If i want economic freedom (rightwing), but i also want the right to have an abortion (leftwing), and if i have a similar crossed opinion on many other issues, wouldnt you sum me up as a centrist? That doesnt mean i dont take a stand, its just not consequently in line with the establishments

"
Abortion is not a National issue.  Its local and personal."

you dont think the murder of many thousands of humans inside the US could be interpreted as a national issue?

SOME ??

Ok, I'll bite.

What is "Some."

@ Avo
Yea.....Abortion is or never was to be a National Issue.
Roe v. Wade .....and the acceptance of the case, and the OUTRARAGE of the court actually mandating what is or is not accepted was over the top.   Abortion should be left to the local level, never mind even the state level. 

But, it is what it is now.

>>people disagree with each other on just about everything in our lives, unless you're willing to argue that everything in life is subjective, you dont really have a point.<<

Everything in life IS subjective, as everything that enters any persons life has to be processed/intrepreted by the indivudual and thus becomes subjective. Even more so this relates ideas, such as "left wing" and "right wing."

As shown in this thread, and many many others, BW considers any one who takes any view that is not the same as his extremist view as being socialist/liberal/left wing. He defines these terms himself as being anything opposed to him. However many other people take different views, hence why some people here term themselves moderate, communist or other and yet still fall into BW's left wing basket. The important thing to remember, that despite BW's ranting and inability to forumalte arguments coherently, they are all right (or left) and also that it doesn't matter. In fact it is just about pointless to try and argue the orginal intent of this thread, and DPS is showing, or wil lshow, the useless of trying. BW will just claim he is a leftist no matter what his views on things like taxes or crime are... However aycoltye is our saviour, for he believes that BW is socialist, or somewhat, and nothing BW says or does will change that (well other than completly changing his oppinions and views of how the world should work.)

Of course this works for any other thing in our lives, for everything that we experiance we intrepret and we digest, thus colouring the experiance in our own ways, making it subjective.

This doesn't mean that objective things don't exisit in the universe, jsut that once they are observed by an indivudual they are tainted into the subjective in that persons mind, not outside it.

We are in fact all living in seperate planes of exisistance that occassionally manage to collide and interact.

Of course this is way off topic, well sort of...

You dont prove anything BW youre just making your own definition, that anyone that doesnt want anarchy isnt a rightwinger, and is therefor a leftist