1 Topic by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 06-Jul-2017 15:56:19)

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Topic: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Lore blurby:

An enlightened race of pacifists.

Widely renowned as non-violent and fair brokers of diplomacy and trade. The Caladius use their great wealth and understanding of politics to subtly influence other races in all matters of planetary, and galactic significance. Their early near worship of portal and propulsion technology has served them quite well as they have looked to the stars.
  It has not gone unnoticed by the other major races that the the agreements they broker always seem to favor the Dream/Calldius in the long run.

--------------------
Spells:
Vision
Generate False Info
Reduce Food Production
Create Portal Force Field
Find Target Planets
Space Amazement
Destroy Iron
Sense Defense Station
--------------------
Operations
Spy on Target
Plant False Info
Infiltrate
Check Allies
Sabotage Portal
Investigate Portal
Planetary Infrastructure
Destroy Cash

--------------------
Bonuses:
Pop       5%
Income    40%
Research  15%
Attack   -30%
Magic     15%
Speed     60%
--------------------
Specials:
Tax Office
--------------------

  So what I am thinking is that they are passable leader race, and a hella little CF banker race - the multi ops alone, and the ability to pay for their own ops fleet could see a lot of use.

  For small/new players they don't have any real harm ops to get a family in trouble - but they do have that extra speed and the nice fat income at the start so they will explore well, however - the implied drawback is they are going to suck up all the killer bonus planets and most of the people who play the new race won't get the most out of them / will be unlikely to be in the family bank at the start.

However a real leader can use all those killer info ops like crazy.

  It would never compete with a  Quant as a res, or a Pax as a popper, or any custom CF banker.
  It would however give a sweet little niche as a information race, and the speed would (as this race could be very helpfull to play joining a fam mid round) help them get set up on planets faster.

  I am aware that there are things that would make them better, but if you add much more to them, they will become a real option vs the standard races. Diplomacy and information is such a pivotal aspect of the game, why not let a race specialise in it, while affording a refreshingly simple race to help new players learn the ropes?

  A completely fresh player would nearly instantly be included in any family with that op complement. Super useful, but kind of kids gloves in a way without any real harm ops.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Pie asked me to post this, I wouldn't normally - so impress us with your acumen current crop of IC thinkers! smile
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

I'd still pick pax over it.

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Yeeees? o.O

The idea is a new race that adds to the standard race compliment, not detracts from it, or replaces one of them.

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

No Droids, only 40% income, only 15% research, 60% speed for no reason ... no thanks.  You can build a much better race just by going custom.

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Droids would detract from the theme of the race, they are pacifists.

Custom races are short about 85 race points to create a race like this.

smile

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Well if you subtract the useless speed and useless ops ... it is pretty close... I get what you are going for but I don't see how having a bad race is going to help new players.

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

the whole idea of a pre-set race or atleast why i belive they are there is because you get something you can't customer

wardancer - over 50 attack
pax - over 50 magic plus a spell
quatom - over 50 research
camaar - over 100 speed.
rev - over 50 income.

with the new style and shorter rounds I would like to see another banker - very rough

0 science
-30 attack
30 magic
50 income
70 pop
0 speed

spells
electric storms
vision
create pff
space amazement

ops
destroy units
planetary infra

specials
tax office

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

I like that ... maybe if Darrk could add a new Op to his that isn't in the game yet, that would help.

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

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9 Reply by LiGhTGuNs (edited by LiGhTGuNs 06-Jul-2017 20:09:33)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Warp fleet op:
Assigns 40% of enemy fleet to warp to and attack closest planet of family of your choosing.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Or maybe some sort of protection mode Op for Darrks passive race... like 12 hrs of being in "Pmode"

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Oooh, PA, that is a hella idea! smile

I am really considering your suggestions. The Pmode op really works with an idea I have for adjusting their stats a bit.

Gimme a bit to post anew.

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12 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 07-Jul-2017 04:56:00)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Topic: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Lore blurby:

An enlightened race of pacifists.
Widely renowned as non-violent and fair brokers of diplomacy and trade. The Caladius use their great wealth and understanding of politics to subtly influence other races in all matters of planetary, and galactic significance. Their early near worship of portal and propulsion technology has served them quite well as they have looked to the stars.
  It has not gone unnoticed by the other major races that the the agreements they broker always seem to favor the Dream/Calldius in the long run.

--------------------
Spells:
Vision
Generate False Info
Reduce Food Production
Create Portal Force Field
Find Target Planets
Space Amazement
Destroy Iron
Sense Defense Station
--------------------
Operations
Spy on Target
Plant False Info
Infiltrate
Check Allies
Sabotage Portal
Investigate Portal
Planetary Infrastructure
Destroy Cash
--------------------
Bonuses:
Pop          -30%    <-- Drop
Income      40%    <-- Same
Research   15%     <-- Same
Attack      -30%     <--Same
Magic        25%     <-- Up
Speed      140%    <-- Big up.
--------------------
Specials:
Tax Office
--------------------

New Spell! (Thanks PA)

"Transcendence":
With the collective focus of all the Callidus Wizards, they are able to briefly transcend this reality and enter a dimension of pure energy!

(12 hour Pmode, castable on self - once every 48 hours)

---------------------------------

New agent Op! (Ha, take that PA, want 1? Joo get 2!)

"Arbitration":
Due the penetratingly sane clarity of their philosophically advanced society, The Callidum teach others how to circumvent the usual matriculation of politics

(Target is immune to Bureaucracy for 4 weeks).




So now you have a zippy retaker, that cannot do pop - can CF bank enough to make the race work - with some pretty cool ass ops. <3

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13 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 07-Jul-2017 04:59:19)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Heck, they themselves could be imune to Bureaucracy.

\o/

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14 Reply by LG

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Sorry not feeling it camaars already have over allowed speed. Everyone but pop has love.

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15 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 08-Jul-2017 14:29:56)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

@PA
Any thoughts?

@LG
Im not sure I am following.

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16 Reply by LG

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

So each pre-set race has something that you can't get if you make a custom race - hence why they are desireable for a specific trait

Magic bonus        The arcane arts can be a useful ally.    PARTAXIAN
Attack bonus        An attack bonus will increase your chances against the other realms in the universe. WARDANCER
Science bonus        Advanced research can produce a more powerful nation.QAUNTOM
Income bonus        An increased income means you will be able to build and train more troops. REVALON
Population growth        With a high population growth your empire will grow more quickly. NO RACE YET
Speed bonus        With faster fleet movement your ships can explore and attack faster than others. CAMAAR

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

I think the race is good ... maybe drop speed to 100 with the two new ops abilities ... I think no bureaucracy should be a permanent trait instead of an op.

Never rule out the possibility that you are a complete idiot

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

Bureacracy should never me removed for any race. It ensures people invest and keep at it gradually to. Not waste resources.

Removing it makes possible saving for rediculously times  and afterwards do one golden hit.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

With 0.5% bureacracy / decay the max savings on resources equals 200 ticks of income. Only after 96 ticks the bureacry part will be pretty significant compared to tick income. Around 50% of your income.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

I do like LG's race idea.  Darrk, I like your races, but I just don't see why anyone would pick them over the other available races. 

If its a family galaxy the most efficient way to play is split everyone into rolls.  And (maybe I'm wrong) I don't see why either of your races would be picked over what's already available.  As a banker/rezzy you wouldn't make as much, and obviously they wouldn't work as an attacker.  And if its a solo galaxy, you probably don't want to take a big hit on attack like that.

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21 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 09-Jul-2017 02:23:44)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

************************************
Notice
Pre Existing Op Fleet - ima acronym it if you don’t mind. 
(Ty!)
************************************


Gentleman,

  Exploration:
  Nearly as quick out of the gate as any CF banker, and not scared to pick up some bonus planets. Early (mostly bomber fleets) can be purchased solo, with the speed to use them.

  Core Smash:
  Can explo en-masse from their early spread (gained either through CF econ or anything gained from bomber fleets – heck both =o ) and can pass planets to everyone. All the while maintaining and building your PEOF.
  You think the fam likes you now? Try passing ‘em 30 ultra-core cookies on day 5. smile

  Mid round:
  Should be producing a fair bit of everything (heavily based on your activity), and maintain ultra-available PEOF, paying for it yourself (that is a true measurable contribution of family Income, and it is paid every tick), this also leads to the usefulness during conflict.

----------------------------------------------

Players at this point can make a nice choice:

  1. Do you sit on your last batch of Exploplanets and become a serviceable part the fam bank (really works with the theme here)?
  2. Do you stay small and help planet wash (take planets off them so the attackers can keep moving) for the family?
  3. Either way, you have some options for advanced play.

----------------------------------------------

  Conflict:
1.    PEOF coupled with Bureaucracy tricks make it the ideal "Bank Vault".
2.    They are simply harder to get a read on - PEOF.
3.    Planning - PEOF
4.    Fighting – Do you really need me to tell you how to use a race with 100% (or more) speed, and all the information tools possible do you?

----------------------------------------------
New player footnote:

  New peeps love any kind of bonus planet, and have a predilection for talking more than one planet per system no matter what race they use. This works with the idea of this as a starter race – if all they do is build CF’s and *clearly* on bonus planets, they will have enough combined income to play continuously off their own earnings every single tick if they like. Once they are starting to look around for info *YOU* the vet can get a read on them and subtly influence them to set up how you want them set up for the round. Explain what the TO’s are for, or get them building some RC’s.
  The speed will get them out in the world, but pacifist traits limit the impact (chaos) they can cause. Sure, a real vet could keep fighting on with this race for bit longer (if they really wanted to) even they will run out fleet steam soon enough.


The new player has learned:
1.    Basic map usage – and they know the fam core.
2.    Have had time to ask a ton of questions (whose answer is almost always “more cf’s!” ).
3.    Fussed with ops (leads them to the guide).
4.    Maybe even took a planet or three!
5.    Are likely active – and very interested in the game. You remember your first round right? When you were you were simply trying to have more net worth then any of the vets in your fam? That freaking crazy fun time we all had.

Not a bad haul for a week in, with minimal attention! smile

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  I will try to respond to all your remarks in anything said before this post, and then put up another revamp in a few hours.

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22 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 09-Jul-2017 02:26:41)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

------------------------
@LG
  I think the 100% (or more) gives them more potency for the whole round, or the option to spread a late join – non attacker bent person, who can be a near instant target for dirt cheap infra – or...
  A lot of this is in-fam applicable too. Say  you want to know if your lazy ass banker has 6 days of food (and food is at .35) but you don’t have the op in your race to see – this little guy is right there for you. Cut the fatty off for a few days and make some coin. smile


A bit of history might help your perspective of Pop Banking:

Round 1:
CF’s were 10(freaking) gc.

Beta 1,2,3,4 and Rounds 2,3,4,5,6:
6gc -1gc (Infra upkeep) = 5gc … CF banking simply did not exist.

Custom Population banking and a *very* few big Paxs (TnT was nearly always a monster Pax) were what you played. There was no option. You would see perfectly fully built 20p pop banker at the bottom of big fams. Wardancers and Quantum were nearly ritualistically removed from familys.

The Great Poppers used this:
Malorean and TnT’s taught most of their bankers this race. Even good ‘ole Flint ran this one for 9 rounds.

-30%   Magic bonus
-30%   Attack bonus       
50%   Science bonus   
50%   Income bonus   
20%   Population growth
   0%   Speed bonus

Specials:
Tax Offices

The more rougeish pop guys ran this:

-30%   Magic bonus
-30%   Attack bonus       
20%   Science bonus   
50%   Income bonus   
50%   Population growth
   0%   Speed bonus

Specials:
Tax Offices

At that point THE ONLY banking AT ALL was popbanking - custom pop races!  \o/

----------------------
( * Y * )   2.5 loooong years pass!   ( * Y * ) 
----------------------

Round 7:
  CF Banking as it is known today, was in the infancy of it renaissance - CF’s had just been moved to 6gc, to 8gc. I know, I was dragging cranky Pop Bankers thru the quicksand of getting them to do some math.

  REVALONS AND CAMARS ARE ADDED TO THE GAME! =o

Round 8:
  There are four total custom pop bankers in all of uni (out of hundreds). Everyone else is a Reva.
  The first two players (White, Custom and Female, Reva) CF bank for the whole round for the first time in 3 years.


Round 9:
  Only custom Pop left in uni was Chill. (He joined a fam mid round and didn’t see Reva as a new race – silleh Chillz).
  First full CF banked fam fails spectacularly!:
  Sent to Draco, (orginal VIP galaxy) Round 4  to start their first three day econ over and over and over under the tutelage of RougeSun.


  Round 10:
  All pop is Reva.
  Rouge Sun is the first player to CF at the start and switch to full Pop. (Reva).
  Rouge Sun's Penguins win the round!

-----------------
From there you should be able to extrapolate the rest.
-----------------

Question about your proposed race:

1.    What it seems is you are proposing is the replacement of Revlon's.
2.    CF bankers are almost always custom.
3.    Why would anyone play a Reva if your race came to fruition?


LG:
, Answer those three questions,
---> In a new thread <---

I will be there!

smile

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23 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 09-Jul-2017 01:18:45)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

On a side note:

I have always seen as the 5 core races handling a bit differently then what stat they exceed in.

Quantum - Agent
Partax     - Wizard
Reva       - Bank
Dancer    - SS Attacker.
Camar     - HC Attacker.
*DW/C    - Utility.


*Race we are discussing.

I think we are getting close to the final form before we ask Pie to start looking at for realz.
big_smile Thanks for your help so far guys. big_smile

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24 Reply by ™Darrk (edited by ™Darrk 09-Jul-2017 01:06:25)

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

________________________________________________________

DREAMWEAVERS v3.1
________________________________________________________

Dreamweavers:

Lore blurby:
An enlightened race of pacifists.
Widely renowned as non-violent and fair brokers of diplomacy and trade. The Caladius use their great wealth and understanding of politics to subtly influence other races in all matters of planetary, and galactic significance. Their early near worship of portal and propulsion technology has served them quite well as they have looked to the stars.
  It has not gone unnoticed by the other major races that the the agreements they broker always seem to favor the Dream/Calldius in the long run.
--------------------
Spells:
Vision
Generate False Info
Reduce Food Production
Create Portal Force Field
Find Target Planets
Space Amazement
Destroy Iron
Sense Defense Station
--------------------
Operations
Spy on Target
Plant False Info
Infiltrate
Check Allies
Sabotage Portal
Investigate Portal
Planetary Infrastructure
Destroy Cash
--------------------
Bonuses:
Pop          -30%    <-- Same
Income      40%    <-- Same
Research   15%     <-- Same
Attack      -30%     <-- Same
Magic        20%     <-- Small drop
Speed      120%    <-- Small drop.
--------------------
Specials:
Tax Office
--------------------
New Spell!
"Transcendence":
With the collective focus of all the Callidus Wizards, they are able to briefly transcend this reality and enter a dimension of pure energy!
(12 hour Pmode, castable on self - once every 48 hours)

---------------------------------

New agent Op!       <--- Big change
"Arbitration":
Due the penetratingly sane clarity of their philosophically advanced society, The Callidum teach others how to circumvent the usual matriculation of politics
(Dreamweaver is immune to Bureaucracy for 12 weeks).         



Slowed it down a little bit:
I like that it has some extra speed. I put the bit about propulsion in their lore so they have a reason to have Sab and CPFF. The little speed advantage keeps with the theme and is as useful as one choose to make it.

Changed Arbitration:
I think this is closer to what PA was describing, I'm apprehensive to give them a static power in their first round. 12 hours on self only, its just all the more reason to have PEOF. Also on the macro side, there will be more end being used, and therefore produced in uni. smile



Any thoughts on this iteration? smile


________________________________________________________

DREAMWEAVERS v3.1
________________________________________________________

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25 Reply by LG

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Re: Dreamweavers (Pax lore) / Callidus (Latin for cunning):

1. NO
2. Maybe but i don't see why you are pointing that out? are you suggesting we need a custom cf banker race over pop?
3. If you are not popping from the start you will still make more income early from rev. and have a quicker start with science. If you are doing a late switch then you will still end up making more gc as theirs higher income and science.

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