1 Topic by LiGhTGuNs (edited by LiGhTGuNs 28-Jan-2017 12:15:51)

  • Posts: 2,404
  • Tag points: 33

Topic: Starburst round 27

Its open. Interesting setup. Up to 4 drafts.. And IA allowed smile

Details:
Size: 120x120 (80x80 last round)
Systems: 580 (625 last round)
Families: 16 (8 last round)
Family size: 5 (10 last round)
Drafts: 4 (1 last round)
Length: 6 weeks (same)
Market Delay: 2 days (same)
Offensive Operations Delay: 2 days (same)
Starting Resources: 10x (same)
Max Defense Stations: 3 (same)
Starting: 2017-02-02 17:00:00
Ending: 2017-03-19 17:00:00

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

1 Dislike 0 Post Points

1 Tag Point

  • Posts: 4,580
  • Tag points: 4

Re: Starburst round 27

size 5 and 4 dafts lol and ia allowed that yikes

~~~~******EasYwaY ******~~~~ biggest noob around

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 282
  • Tag points: 12

Re: Starburst round 27

Shut up and take my money pie! (And send that VIP code out)

But man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,611
  • Tag points: 19

Re: Starburst round 27

Great so they enabled iAs and brought bac the option to delete before round starts

This equals most fams being dumps for multis and not having a shot at the round at all as they'll have to have that dead weight to start

Think I might sit this round out, it's gonna be bad

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,611
  • Tag points: 19

Re: Starburst round 27

Also why were drafts brought back on such a level? I feel like someone influenced you pie ... just my thoughts tho

Didn't drafting kill the game before? Thought we learn from the past ... complete random with stay in fam option creates strong communities within players with a balance of power

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,366
  • Tag points: 13

Re: Starburst round 27

Lol 4 drafts what a joke.

Gonna have 2-3 super fams. Rest inactive   and ia again its already gone to far in sn. Market aiding none stop in there also. Makes me wonder how much cheating going on before

Hmm let me guess so ia aloud lets see mag allainxe in 3 familys in sb work all together . Sound like a great shity round

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,404
  • Tag points: 33

Re: Starburst round 27

I agree with devilz and cloud here. There will be no balance in this round right from the start.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,366
  • Tag points: 13

Re: Starburst round 27

Lol market aiding passing the planets to nap teams getting no chnace on retakes because if u have a nap they would pass planet to the nap team stopping retakes  . 3 families baring down on longly fam getting raped by morale system

And lets not forget all the multi from  deleteing preround. With 5 member.  If u get 1 or 2 miltis good luck

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,611
  • Tag points: 19

Re: Starburst round 27

Pie it was said that you were the chosen one! You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness! wink

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,832
  • Tag points: 187

Re: Starburst round 27

Devilz where u at lol contact me.. i sent u a private message

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

11 Reply by Devillived (edited by Devillived 28-Jan-2017 20:02:57)

  • Posts: 952
  • Tag points: 18

Re: Starburst round 27

really? allowing AIs after what we saw in SN? and full fam of drafts.  Looks likes its unplayable unless we get drafted into a top fam.  Most likely sitting this round out.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,743
  • Tag points: 85

Re: Starburst round 27

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Great so they enabled iAs and brought bac the option to delete before round starts

This equals most fams being dumps for multis and not having a shot at the round at all as they'll have to have that dead weight to start

Think I might sit this round out, it's gonna be bad

~ Cloud

Deletes are back yes as an option for players not interested in playing the galaxy anymore. If you join Starburst this round and delete, you won't be able to rejoin.

As far as I know multis will continue to be handled normally.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,743
  • Tag points: 85

Re: Starburst round 27

As a long time moderator who has been through this cycle a number of times, it's still sad to see the negativity that comes with any change that's made. Pie has spent a lot of time making improvements to this game and there's a lot more to come, but if you think his goal is to bring the game back to the point it was 15 years ago you're crazy as it's not relevant to the current market.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 3,611
  • Tag points: 19

Re: Starburst round 27

Undeath it's not negative reactions towards change, it's obvious stuff man

When did ias ever go good? Never dude, so why bring such a failed idea up?

And full draft fams? We barely have 20 or less dedicated players half of which are even capable of actually playing, so what your striving to do is put all the best players together to beat up on the guys that can't fight back?

We seen it round after round in mw and other galaxies which is why I joined pw, because it was more balanced and didn't allow drafts.

The number of people in families is sorta bad but playable, again this setup is assuming everyone is on the same level and playing field as far as capabilities go, and they aren't

Your aiming to make a super alliance that no one can fight back against because #1 you guys introduced a busted morale system so it would be impossible for someone outside the circle to fight back using 20 morale per attack ..

The whole idea was poorly thought out, and decision was made without the communities input which saddens me

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 952
  • Tag points: 18

Re: Starburst round 27

Gonna have to agree with cloud.

We tried AI's in SN, and i deleted from the round.  I cant see how i would enjoy another round of that.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,832
  • Tag points: 187

Re: Starburst round 27

even im sad to say i agree with cloud ias are lame.. to allow it u might as well of fixed the ally coding.. to make illegal alliances like this is plainly piss poor.. people complained about the morale issues and yet u guys dont touch it yet instead u go and screw with the amount of players per fam and etc.. where is pie maybe he needs to talk to the whole community first to see whats favored the most..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,290
  • Tag points: 80

Re: Starburst round 27

Undeath wrote:
~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Great so they enabled iAs and brought bac the option to delete before round starts

This equals most fams being dumps for multis and not having a shot at the round at all as they'll have to have that dead weight to start

Think I might sit this round out, it's gonna be bad

~ Cloud

Deletes are back yes as an option for players not interested in playing the galaxy anymore. If you join Starburst this round and delete, you won't be able to rejoin.

As far as I know multis will continue to be handled normally.


That should probably be posted in announcements.

[13:43] <@RisingDown> never thought i'd say it, but TBO actually did something useful.
[13:43] <@arsy> dont let him see you say that
[13:43] <@RisingDown> oh shit
[13:43] * You were kicked from #room by arsy (kapow!)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 73
  • Tag points: 3

Re: Starburst round 27

I decided to go random this round. I've got a feeling that it is going to be a shatstorm.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 275
  • Tag points: 13

Re: Starburst round 27

Oh wow that many drafts AND IA. Bye for now.

mbvX, jamjam, nobody, smax

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,404
  • Tag points: 33

Re: Starburst round 27

TheBigOne wrote:
Undeath wrote:

Deletes are back yes as an option for players not interested in playing the galaxy anymore. If you join Starburst this round and delete, you won't be able to rejoin.

As far as I know multis will continue to be handled normally.


That should probably be posted in announcements.

Note, after deleting you can't random into the galaxcy. You can still draft into it though.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

21 Reply by Anarchy (edited by Anarchy 29-Jan-2017 01:21:39)

  • Posts: 1,668
  • Tag points: 1

Re: Starburst round 27

So 10 people are happy with this round the other 70 are sol


I'm sitting this one out there is already 3 superfamily

Anarchy

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 280

Re: Starburst round 27

change rule from Illegal alliances are legal, to 1 official ally

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,791
  • Tag points: 185

Re: Starburst round 27

Your guys' passion is appreciated!

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Pie it was said that you were the chosen one! You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness! wink

~ Cloud

Haha I just watched these for the first time.  Funny enough EIII was my favorite.   That drama, dayum!

Alright in all seriousness...


Regarding Drafts
~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Also why were drafts brought back on such a level? I feel like someone influenced you pie ... just my thoughts tho

People did influence me.  See this thread: https://imperialconflict.com/forum/view … ?id=201539

In particular, DA's response is really important:

DustyAladdin wrote:

I've wanted to get friends of mine to try the game but since they've never played, but it feels like a waste to use the one draft spot on a n00b instead of a more experienced player. I certainly would not introduce a brand new player if it was not guaranteed they would be in my family.

You may also note that I decided against the other part of his suggestion:

DustyAladdin wrote:

The only downside I can see is that there might be more of a divide between top and bottom where the top few fams have good competition from each other and the bottom fams are equal with each other but the gap between is huge. I don't think that would be influenced very much though if more than half the spots are randoms.

Not all players will agree with each other, let alone agree with my decisions.  But yes, all of your guys' conversations/feedback are influencing me in some manner.

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Didn't drafting kill the game before? Thought we learn from the past ... complete random with stay in fam option creates strong communities within players with a balance of power

Lots of things killed the game before, including and ironically some "fixes" that were meant to improve the game.

Drafting however, I don't think is one of them on its own.  It feels bad right now because there aren't many galaxy options.  This will change soon.

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

We seen it round after round in mw and other galaxies which is why I joined pw, because it was more balanced and didn't allow drafts.

Another galaxy will open up soon to help with this.  We do want to give players options, so stay tuned.


Regarding Legalizing Illegal Alliances
~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

When did ias ever go good? Never dude, so why bring such a failed idea up?

IC's history with the IA rule is spotty.  The context in which it is a "failed idea" is ignoring the potential changes that can come from exposing and adjusting imbalances.  The Squirrel-Era of IC is over, we're not going to keep repeating the same galaxy setups round after round and hope that magically new players stick around.

Sometimes you will agree with what gets changed, and sometimes you won't.

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

so what your striving to do is put all the best players together to beat up on the guys that can't fight back?

If that does not happen, then we're fine.  If that does happen, then we will better understand how to fix the problem.  Either way is an acceptable result to me.  The IA rule doesn't allow us the chance to see.

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

even im sad to say i agree with cloud ias are lame.. to allow it u might as well of fixed the ally coding.. to make illegal alliances like this is plainly piss poor.. people complained about the morale issues and yet u guys dont touch it yet instead u go and screw with the amount of players per fam and etc.. where is pie maybe he needs to talk to the whole community first to see whats favored the most..

Your concerns are valid but your assumptions about the the work required to make changes and where I spend my time are entirely inaccurate.  I responded to you in more detail here:

https://imperialconflict.com/forum/view … 9#p1773539

Devilz wrote:

and ia again its already gone to far in sn. Market aiding none stop in there also. Makes me wonder how much cheating going on before

IA as a rule is and has always been a problem.  My position on this is no secret.  I've said it before and I'll repeat here: it's a band-aid on larger issue where we need a proper fix.  We shouldn't be discouraging players from coordinating with each other, we should be finding ways to make the game feel balanced and fun for players who play alone or in smaller groups by choice or otherwise.  Having IA result in blocking keeps us from ever discovering what the real fixes should be.

Not only that, but it's impossible to prove if players are smart enough to use external communications, which they often are.  The result is that the smarter cheaters gain an unfair advantage.  I'd rather level the playing field and give everybody that advantage and even encourage people to work together.

The short term pain in people re-discovering imbalances is necessary if we are to ever fix them.  That might mean SB-27 sucks for some people, but maybe future SB rounds and even all other galaxies become 10x better because of what we learn and what changes we implement from said lessons.

Devilz wrote:

Lol market aiding passing the planets to nap teams getting no chnace on retakes because if u have a nap they would pass planet to the nap team stopping retakes  . 3 families baring down on longly fam getting raped by morale system

These need real fixes, not the IA rule.

Devillived wrote:

really? allowing AIs after what we saw in SN?

Yes, especially because of what we saw in SN.  Like it or not, SN has given us more insight into how people want to play the game than we've had in a very long time.

Devillived wrote:

We tried AI's in SN, and i deleted from the round.  I cant see how i would enjoy another round of that.

To me this is proof that the underlying game is bad enough to cause people to delete.  I would rather spend time fixing that than clinging to vague rules that are easily circumvented.


Regarding General Criticism
~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

The number of people in families is sorta bad but playable, again this setup is assuming everyone is on the same level and playing field as far as capabilities go, and they aren't

This setup isn't assuming that at all.  It had more to do with physical space and planet/player ratio.  There's a bigger issue here with regard to over-abundance of resources making the game a hoard-fest, but that's another conversation entirely.

I make no claim that the round will be perfectly balanced.  On the contrary, I expect to see problems and will be watching closely so I can understand how to properly fix them.

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

Your aiming to make a super alliance that no one can fight back against because #1 you guys introduced a busted morale system so it would be impossible for someone outside the circle to fight back using 20 morale per attack ..

I'm not aiming for that at all, but if a super alliance happens I am not against it.  It's the nature of allowing players freedom, and I would rather tell them what they can do instead of telling them what they can't.

The Morale criticism is valid and is being worked on, but it will not be a quick fix.  That's reality.

~Pw 32~ Random Hero wrote:

The whole idea was poorly thought out, and decision was made without the communities input which saddens me

~ Cloud

Your assumptions are incorrect.  The decision was made after spending the last 6 weeks reading chat/forums and hearing what players have to say, and balancing it with my own opinions on what direction the game should go towards.  If that's "poorly thought out" to you, I'm afraid I can't do much else to help.


Keep it Comin'

Your guys concerns are all very much heard!  I appreciate all of your input.  I'm looking fwd to proving that this is all part of the work needed to make the game more fun for everybody, even if the reasoning for changes isn't always obvious or clear.

Also, there is a lot of focus on IA in general.  There's a new thread to centralize conversation for that topic here: https://imperialconflict.com/forum/view … ?id=203293

Thanks everybody.

Got a few bucks?  The Imperial Tip Jar is accepting contributions!

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,290
  • Tag points: 80

Re: Starburst round 27

I'm a little confused, can someone give me some feedback?

The people wanted more draft spots, they got them and now they are mad.

The people wanted smaller family's, they got them and now are mad.

The people wanted to play with friends, pie said illegal alliances are no longer illegal... People are mad.

The people complained about morale, IA will help with that... People are mad.

The people wanted a delete option.. pie provided and the people are mad.

Yes.... The draft idea is probably a cover to make $$.. so what, he's worked his ass off for it.

What would it take for him to make you happy? Just out of curiosity...

Would you rather have a lazy owner who doesn't do anything and just collects a small paycheck?

I personally want to see more players join, and to do that, we need to change things to see what works best and how. This game has potential, we just need to crack it open and pour out the juice.

[13:43] <@RisingDown> never thought i'd say it, but TBO actually did something useful.
[13:43] <@arsy> dont let him see you say that
[13:43] <@RisingDown> oh shit
[13:43] * You were kicked from #room by arsy (kapow!)

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 4,743
  • Tag points: 85

Re: Starburst round 27

The problem with IAs has always been that when communication takes place externally, it's difficult to moderate consistently. Unless the conversation takes place in ingame messages, we ran the risk of the information being fabricated. The moderator team and Pie had multiple long discussions on this, and our options basically came down to:

1. Start accepting other sources of information
2. Remove the rule and allow the game to moderate itself

The problem with the first option is again that it's incredibly easy to fabricate outside sources. A quick convo with someone on Facebook, drop into photoshop and edit a word here and there, boom someone just offered to ia with you. Discord has been mentioned as an option as we have more control over that. Couple issues there including that players could edit what they said after the fact, and although Discord has a lot of advantages over IRC, easily accessible/searchable logs aren't one of them.

Market aiding was always an incredibly frustrating one, because it can be so obvious that it's happening without there being a single shred of evidence we could use to punish someone.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

0 Dislike 1 Post Points