Topic: Jan Böhmermann

Jan Böhmermann is a stand-up comedian who insulted the Turkish sultan Erdogan, and Merkel made it possible to prosecute him with a law from 1949. This law dictates that you are not allowed to insult a foreign head of state. One can get prosecuted on the condition that the German gov agrees to it.

I'm not a fan of Jan and I don't think he's even remotely funny but it shows how deep the EU leaders bow for dictators these days.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

I wouldn't say that it bows before dictators, and think about this from a German point of view. They basically will have to deal with other world leaders on a global scale, and having "your citizen said mean things about me" dominate conversation between the 2 nations would be wasteful and lead to no progress between the 2 nations. Having laws on their books (and from 1949 would probably have been to do with post-WW2 and trying not to piss off neighbours that were already pissed off) that allow them to basically ensure smooth relations between nations.

Not trying to defend their decision, but I can see why they would want to prevent their citizens pissing off neighbouring countries. It is a international relations vs freedom of expression issue, but is by no means bowing to foreign powers.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Jan Böhmermann

"a international relations vs freedom of expression issue, but is by no means bowing to foreign powers."
the first part of the sentence really is a euphemism for what you deny in the second part.

In any case, ordinary citizens should be able to criticize their leaders or other peoples leaders no matter public relations.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

If we were talking about Saudi Arabia or Pakistan here, I'd get Wornstrum's argument.  But we're not.  We're talking about Turkey,  a nation that has, since the Cold War, been in close relations with the West, including being a member in a democracy-dominated military alliance and strongly attempting to gain membership in an economic union of many of the same nations.  This is not a country to whom the concepts of individual freedom are entirely foreign.  Why is this even an issue for Turkey?

Make Eyes Great Again!

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5 (edited by Little Paul 17-Apr-2016 13:10:42)

Re: Jan Böhmermann

There are large Turkish minorities in many key EU-countries. They have important ties with people inside Turkey. Their support is very important to maintain power in Turkey.

In order to achieve this Erdogan primarily abuses a long feud between Turks and Kurd's for outside support and instills more strict religious rules for inside support.

A totalitarian leader is weak when he looks weak. That is why they cannot deal with mockery where a leader of a more democratic country doesn't necessarily need to instill fear in order to maintain power.

Its not that difficult to make the dictator fall but its simply not in our leaders short-term interests at the moment. We should demand the right course of action of our leaders because a democratic moderate-islamic ally like turkey is worth gold in the long run.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

I dont really get the problem here.
We do have a law, which allows foreign leaders to complain at our goverment if they feel insulted.
Now the Böhmermann lyrics are insulting in almost every word, so Merkel had no other chance then handing this over to the judiciary.

Now its up to the judges if Böhmermanns poem was really insulting or a piece of "art".
I think its better if judges make that decision then our chancelor making it.

There is no question that this law has to and will be abandoned after this case, but as long its a law, Merkes has to follow it.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

"I dont really get the problem here."
Yet you state it in the next sentence tongue
"We do have a law, which allows foreign leaders to complain at our goverment if they feel insulted."

"I think its better if judges make that decision then our chancelor making it."
That is a valid point.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

wait wait wait

JA and I could have got warrants in Germany for all you Bush is a Nazi posters????!!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

if Trump wins this will be like thrown out the night of the election

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

what about when Bush gave Merkel that creepy massage, nobody got arrested for insulting him

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

The question is did Bush complain about the insults? I mean the situation is different in both of these cases. Making fun of Bush for his personal actions, like the massage, aren't really going to cause any issues for Bush, it won't encourage the populace in the US to protest against him (I mean I can hear the slogans "No more backrubs, no more backrubs...what do we want 'no more backrubs' when do we want them 'now!'"). From what I have read, the poem written by Jan Bohmermann was satirical and aimed at Erdogan, and so I am guess involves more than "he gives creepy massages" or something of that nature. I am very interested to see what the poem actually said before stating that this is unfair and Merkel is bowing down to a foreign head-of-state.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Jan Böhmermann

It doesn't matter what the poem said. If you can't criticize public leaders, something is wrong.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

Was it just criticism though? In fact, wikipedia (I know, not the best source of information) said that the poem "went on to find the line between satire, which is protected by freedom of speech legislation, and "abusive criticism" (German: Schmähkritik) of a foreign state leader, which in Germany is a punishable offense" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hmermann_affair).

Bohermann acknowledged "this experiment to be deliberately offensive and "forbidden", [he] went on to present a poem that not only harshly criticized Erdoğan for his human rights record, but was also liberally seasoned with profanity" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hmermann_affair).

So yes, it does matter what was said, and it also matters how it was said. This issue might have had a different response if he had criticised Erdogan's human rights record in a tasteful way, then he may not be facing court. For example, the "Erdowie, Erdowo, Erdoğan" singers/show are not being prosecuted for speaking out against Erdogan.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Jan Böhmermann

Ok, i will try to translate this to english.. it will not be 100% accurate since i lack most of the cursing words:P

Sackdoof, feige und verklemmt
ist Erdoğan, der Präsident.

Dumb as bread, cowardish and uptight
thats Erdogan, the president

Sein Gelöt stinkt schlimm nach Döner,
selbst ein Schweinefurz riecht schöner.

His dick smells worse like Döner,
even a pigfart smell nicer.


Er ist der Mann, der Mädchen schlägt
und dabei Gummimasken trägt.

He is the man who beats girls
while wearing rubber masks.

Am liebsten mag er Ziegen ficken
und Minderheiten unterdrücken,
Kurden treten, Christen hauen
und dabei Kinderpornos schauen.

His favorit thing is fucking goats
and minority opression.
Kurds kicking, Christs beating
while watching childporn.


Und selbst abends heißt’s statt schlafen
Fellatio mit hundert Schafen.

Even in the evening he wont sleep,
instead do fellatio with a hundred sheep.


Ja, Erdoğan ist voll und ganz
ein Präsident mit kleinem Schwanz.

Yes, Erdogan totally is,
a President with a very small dick.

Jeden Türken hört man flöten,
die dumme Sau hat Schrumpelklöten.

You can hear every Turk whistle,
that stupid pig has shriveled balls.


Von Ankara bis Istanbul
weiß jeder, dieser Mann ist schwul,

From Ankara to Istanbul,
everyone knows that guy is gay.

pervers, verlaust und zoophil,
Recep Fritzl Přiklopil.

perverted, lousy and zoophile,
Recep Fritzl Přiklopil.

Sein Kopf so leer wie seine Eier,
der Star auf jeder Gangbangfeier,

His head is empty like his balls,
he ist the Star on every Gangbang party.

bis der Schwanz beim Pinkeln brennt.
Das ist Recep Erdoğan, der türkische Präsident.

Until his dick burns while pissing.
Thats Recep Erdogan, the turkish president.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

you can find a better translation here

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comment … anslation/

This also contains the context, where Böhmermann states that its clearly illegal to say this.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

The government of  Turkey has taken control of the Christian churches in southern Turkey.  Forget about bad poems look at what Turkey is doing.a lot of what you read in the news is just  smoke to cover up what is really going on.

The muslim dictator of the united  states  Obama saports isis.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

Feel free to open a topic about it...
this one actually was about.. the poem....and is more about how freedom of speech is in danger in our western societies instead of pointing fingers at others again...

Re: Jan Böhmermann

"this one actually was about.. the poem...."
yeah, rub it in tongue

Re: Jan Böhmermann

that wouldnt get published in the US but it ain't criminal

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Jan Böhmermann

lol

Re: Jan Böhmermann

Thanks Schneipel for posting the translation and the link. I think the poem itself is pretty harsh...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

Re: Jan Böhmermann

Its a  stupid, inappropriate, not funny poem. In fact I dislike most of what this guy makes. I admit as much.

But you should be able to say almost anything you want against a public figure. Its a good counter-measure against autocracy. An autocratic leader often is too weak to stand up against something as simple as comedy.

23 (edited by Schniepel 25-Apr-2016 08:40:04)

Re: Jan Böhmermann

"But you should be able to say almost anything you want against a public figure. Its a good counter-measure against autocracy. An autocratic leader often is too weak to stand up against something as simple as comedy."

Well thats true.. BUT!
That peom wouldnt had been this widely known if it wouldnt have been illegal here.
The few people who watch Böhmermanns show would had known it.. and thats it.
Now it appears that the whole world knows it and the damage to Erdogan is by far bigger then it would had been if there wouldnt had been all this talking about it.

Nevertheless.. that law will be gone soon. It was mostly used to protect the darling of the west, the shah of persia, against that big exile opposition we had here in germany.

"In fact I dislike most of what this guy makes"

Well the "varoufake" was quiete genius, but i dislike most of his other stuff aswell.

24 (edited by Little Paul 25-Apr-2016 09:23:56)

Re: Jan Böhmermann

"That peom wouldnt had been this widely known if it wouldnt have been illegal here."
and unnecessary. But I get your point.

"The few people who watch Böhmermanns show would had known it.. and thats it."
because its a bad show still big_smile

"Now it appears that the whole world knows it and the damage to Erdogan is by far bigger then it would had been if there wouldnt had been all this talking about it."
That is the beauty of it. He had no choice: let it go and appear weak or make a stand and appear weak.

"Well the "varoufake" was quiete genius, but i dislike most of his other stuff aswell."
agreed, that one was epic. Probably why it reached even me.