Topic: Morale Option sucks major

I just had to write on this cause this is so pitiful I cannot let it go.. I dislike this entire morale clause thing.. atm we have 2 top fams getting hit up my small fams and the funny thing is the top fams cant even properly turn the fight around cause it takes 2-3 times the morale to retake and clear.. this is lame and for the game to go to the extent its gone thru without proper testing is a embrassment.. now u have small fams with active attackers hitting big fams and expo'ing thru cores and shit and not being able to clear due to the amount of morale it cost to constantly do it.. I've expressed my concerns to a mod and he's options is to adapt to the game.. now I dunno where he comes from with that but its sad to were top fams now have to make deals with smaller fams.. its like IC has become the IC for losers and people who cant build eco and fight at the same time..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Morale Option sucks major

So instead of small families getting farmed relentlessly and desperately trying to make deals with large families, they're able to poke larger families?  So large, organized, active families are able to be challenged by small, possibly organized, families with a few active players?

And why from an administrative standpoint would we want to change that back to the old way where 66 & 67 would have the ability to hold the other 6 families in the galaxy hostage for 80% of the round until they decided they wanted a challenge and fought each other at eor?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale Option sucks major

well in large fams defense.. u mean to tell me now ur penaltizing ur active fams who build faster then others.. that's lame.. u give more power to the people who have not spent as much time in as others to be able to have a advantage over them.. they can expo 20 all over ur core and because people whine about farming the big fam has to take a risk of letting them portal in core cause it core 40%-60% a attack. in this stupid stuff u call core systems what benefit does it give to do this and render the war option useless it makes no sense.. its like here advantages to being inactive or not good in this game.. nobody trying to farm well atleast not 67.. but yet a fam that's 4 ranks below us can expo all over us cause us to attack them constantly and raid new expos cause they feel like it and it cost us 30-40% a attack and u call that fair? hell no that's another way of abuse... and in these so call core systems u guys given us.. that's dumb u.. u guys make changes to the game and don't consider all the variables then say its a testing round or we cant make all the changes at once.. how about do make changes until they are all worked out and through of in every aspent..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

4 (edited by Processor VX 08-Jan-2016 22:01:05)

Re: Morale Option sucks major

There is always going to be a NW gap in families which will limit who can attack who. With only 8 families and allies/pnaps the options start to dwindle. You need more families. To get that you need either more players or smaller family sizes.

mbvX, jamjam, nobody, smax

5 (edited by Undeath 08-Jan-2016 23:08:33)

Re: Morale Option sucks major

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

well in large fams defense.. u mean to tell me now ur penaltizing ur active fams who build faster then others.. that's lame.. u give more power to the people who have not spent as much time in as others to be able to have a advantage over them.. they can expo 20 all over ur core and because people whine about farming the big fam has to take a risk of letting them portal in core cause it core 40%-60% a attack. in this stupid stuff u call core systems what benefit does it give to do this and render the war option useless it makes no sense.. its like here advantages to being inactive or not good in this game.. nobody trying to farm well atleast not 67.. but yet a fam that's 4 ranks below us can expo all over us cause us to attack them constantly and raid new expos cause they feel like it and it cost us 30-40% a attack and u call that fair? hell no that's another way of abuse... and in these so call core systems u guys given us.. that's dumb u.. u guys make changes to the game and don't consider all the variables then say its a testing round or we cant make all the changes at once.. how about do make changes until they are all worked out and through of in every aspent..


This is a rambling mess...but i'll give it a go.

Penalizing the super active families evens the playing field for the rest of the galaxy.  The fact that you have to worry about the mid ranked families just gives us more competition.  The high activity of a few players isn't the norm, thus if we don't give some advantage to players that can't dedicate 12 hours a day, we'd have no competition.

The war option isn't compatible with the new morale system in it's current state.  Core systems were added because top families were complaining about small attackers coring their bankers, if you explore properly now their advantage in morale is halved inside your core now.  The fact that some top families didn't take advantage of this system, and and are at risk of coring because of it, is a flaw of the strategy, not the system.
current round example (using the average of 20 planets per system):
1967
1152 total planets (as of now)
26 core systems
45% planets protected by cores

1966
1133 total planets (as of now)
15 core systems
26% planets protected by cores

1972
735 total planets (as of now)
23 core systems
62% planets protected by core

If you fill your core, you're not at risk of people exploring all over you.  Saving 100% of resource bonus planets for resourcers while bankers explore elsewhere, leaving holes in your core, is now a calculated decision to not take advantage of having more systems that cost twice the morale to attack.

A similar calculated risk is pop banking. 
As of this tick, I'm the #3 income banker.  My income/(nw/planets) ratio isn't nearly as good this round as it was last round, because since we're in a small family I'm ridiculously defense heavy....but even with that added nw compared to top banker, I'm 60% of his income while being 42% of his nw (If I had normal defense & to/rc ratio I'd be about 85% of his income, but with this current system starting RC heavy to boost research and then deleting them later in the round to replace with to's is the most efficient route). That extra 1.7mil nw + the nw that comes with the farms needed to feed him is a significant drain on your morale.   (we're discussing ways to make pop banking viable)

Another way to save or spend morale is how you use your ops!  If you're in a family that's twice the size of a family you're attacking, do you:
A.  old standard:
PI (5 morale)
IP (5 morale)
cpff or sab (aggressive op, equal to attack)
Clear planet (attacking morale)

or
B.
Maintain infil (5 morale, good multiple weeks)
Use estimation to judge amount of fleet necessary to clear the planet (0 morale)
Clear planet (attacking morale)

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale Option sucks major

I was gonna write something about this the same time you did, but I didn't cause I was still negotiating nap with a smaller fam...
Couldn't believe we are actually paying fam's half our size and nw for a nap simply cause have no other choise.

This being said I do believe the intend of this rule is ok, we do not want large fams to farm the smaller ones, but also, since it's the actual game, you cannot punish fams for being active and organized. Personally I have never been in a fam that wasn't top 3 for at least a big part of the round just cause I always try to get everybody active and organized. Been so since the first day I played 15 years ago. I had to train noobs just to get them to understand what they were doing, get everybody in a chat and so on and so on.

With these new rules I much more prefere to be in a smaller fam cause I'd at least be able to hit someone and have some fun. Large fams have no other option then to nap everybody and then the game is only about who has the biggest infra, while it should be about who has most planets at the end of the round.

Anyway, I suggest we leave the morale rules as they are, yeah really I mean it. Just one little thing...
If a smaller fam decides to attack a larger fam, or starts doing ops/spells the rules should automatically go back to the old rules for a certain period, like 48 hours...

One thing is for sure, I am not playing another round the way it is played right now, not with these rules!
That way the smaller are still protected, but if they hit first or hit back they must suffer the consequences.

Re: Morale Option sucks major

Carrera GT wrote:

I was gonna write something about this the same time you did, but I didn't cause I was still negotiating nap with a smaller fam...
Couldn't believe we are actually paying fam's half our size and nw for a nap simply cause have no other choise.

This being said I do believe the intend of this rule is ok, we do not want large fams to farm the smaller ones, but also, since it's the actual game, you cannot punish fams for being active and organized. Personally I have never been in a fam that wasn't top 3 for at least a big part of the round just cause I always try to get everybody active and organized. Been so since the first day I played 15 years ago. I had to train noobs just to get them to understand what they were doing, get everybody in a chat and so on and so on.

With these new rules I much more prefere to be in a smaller fam cause I'd at least be able to hit someone and have some fun. Large fams have no other option then to nap everybody and then the game is only about who has the biggest infra, while it should be about who has most planets at the end of the round.

Anyway, I suggest we leave the morale rules as they are, yeah really I mean it. Just one little thing...
If a smaller fam decides to attack a larger fam, or starts doing ops/spells the rules should automatically go back to the old rules for a certain period, like 48 hours...

One thing is for sure, I am not playing another round the way it is played right now, not with these rules!
That way the smaller are still protected, but if they hit first or hit back they must suffer the consequences.

We've discussed a means of setting up a mechanic like this, but there are a lot of issues (I have a running list of them on my home desktop that I'll post later smile )
Chiefly:
1.  there would likely be no way to get the mechanic to only target the aggressor, meaning if family A attacks family B, family B get's reduced morale...but as soon as family B attacks family A, family A also gets reduced morale.  (this was originally discussed to replace the war option)  With the possible tweaking of a minimum morale loss on attacks, this could work out.
2.  When starting a war, why would you ever attack first?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale Option sucks major

Well In my honest opinion it gives the game more strategic ways of playing and this is supposed to be a strategy game no?:
Starting a war, not attacking first would be a strategy.
Just like not jumping fleet.... Its a risk, but it could work out.
If you attack first you know the other fam can hit back with a lot less morale losses. But also, the one being attacked can safe up and build fleet and hit back.

Re: Morale Option sucks major

I agree with IC Death here, first that mods careless about the game or improvement, second that they've changed the game in a way that it's quickly becoming unplayable. There's only 8 fans as it is, of which round after round maybe only 4 are active with a grand total of about 20-30 actives round long. Mods have taken away an ability to attack people even further which virtually makes no sense, are we not suppose to use the fleets page? Are top fams suppose to build and grow just to attempt to fend off small families while being unable to effectively attack anyone theirselves?

Hmm sounds about right IC is trash and is just further proving it lol, would expect nothing less from this game

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

Re: Morale Option sucks major

well, there is always 80 people joining, so maybe we should look into why they turn inactive...
probably cause they see immediately that there is no way to win the round.

How about we put the most active people in the different fam's and make them leader. People who want to do the effort of leading/organizing a fam? The rest could random in as it has always been.

Make fam's smaller (4-5 people), and have more fams with allies, the way It used to be. And plz bring back the stay in fam option. Cause even people whol like to organize a fam love to have a round that doesn't require a lot of effort every once in a while.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

Re: Morale Option sucks major

Death, cloud, your wasting your breathe on this. Mod team clearly don't understand they jumped the gun. Their heads in the right place, but this is completely pre mature. Besides they've said themselves they don't care about the people who have played for years, just the 1-2 people who join a round

Re: Morale Option sucks major

I think that's a fact.. point is mods don't play the game so they know little to nothing about how it is to put time into a game to where they give the advantage to the lower active players.. and try to justify it to active players that their trying to make the game fair.. when in fact the game run fine for 10-15 years prior to that.. u telling me now its unfair? and make a round with no wars.. u cant have a war.. their is no competition.. and I've always told mods about breaking up the activity.. but no it would be too difficult.. well hell this is difficult for u guys and how I see it and yet uve managed to screw this up beyond belief.. this has to be the most unbelievable round where a top fam has to pay a lower fam a NAP because the lower fam can attack more then the top fam.. not because their better just because they can attack more times then top fam..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Morale Option sucks major

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

I think that's a fact.. point is mods don't play the game so they know little to nothing about how it is to put time into a game to where they give the advantage to the lower active players.. and try to justify it to active players that their trying to make the game fair.. when in fact the game run fine for 10-15 years prior to that.. u telling me now its unfair? and make a round with no wars.. u cant have a war.. their is no competition.. and I've always told mods about breaking up the activity.. but no it would be too difficult.. well hell this is difficult for u guys and how I see it and yet uve managed to screw this up beyond belief.. this has to be the most unbelievable round where a top fam has to pay a lower fam a NAP because the lower fam can attack more then the top fam.. not because their better just because they can attack more times then top fam..

I play every round, and actively look for ways to work with the new system.  Typically I break down my findings and try to spell out new potential strategies (see above) since everybody else wants to go back to the same morale system that they forget they hated....It's like my wife thinking she wants to be pregnant again because she forgets how terrible it was tongue.  Not my fault at all if people don't take advantage smile

Also Foohon, the mods didn't say they didn't care about the old players.  I personally said I care more about new players than veteran players with bad attitudes smile

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale Option sucks major

its not bad attitudes.. its a damn shame when a top fam can lose to a bottom fam simply because he can attack more times then we can cause the game allows lower nw fams make more attacks then larger fams in their own damn core.. that's a sad day what IC has become and reduced too..

take note now new rounds are everyone hang back low nw and all.. then expo 20 planets into top fam and around and they wont have enough morale to take them all even with 9-10 people attacking.. and then we will abuse the morale issue and make big fams pay little fams cause the game is now designed for the semi active players and losers...


after this round I'm done hopefully a lot of u vets feel the same way and we can boycott IC shit's dumb... if they want the losers and semi active players as the voice of IC so be it.. let it be known the game is dying not because of the players its because of the same mods and they stubborn ways and what its 5 of u guys and half of u don't play.. true nick u plays but whoelse plays.. nobody so we have to get a view for the entire game thru ur eyes.. nobody elses.. what u and only u find issues in will be a problem.. not like any of mods do anything to contribute to the game.. put active people on as mods.. not people who can give 2 craps about the game and old relics who keep mod because of their history..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Morale Option sucks major

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

its not bad attitudes.. its a damn shame when a top fam can lose to a bottom fam simply because he can attack more times then we can cause the game allows lower nw fams make more attacks then larger fams in their own damn core.. that's a sad day what IC has become and reduced too..

Yes they can do more attacks, but there's no reason you shouldn't have the defense to slow them down.  With your greater resources and experience, each one of your attacks should be successful...while their attacks, if you take care of your defenses, will only be able to target undefended planets.

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

take note now new rounds are everyone hang back low nw and all.. then expo 20 planets into top fam and around and they wont have enough morale to take them all even with 9-10 people attacking.. and then we will abuse the morale issue and make big fams pay little fams cause the game is now designed for the semi active players and losers...

Fill
Your
Core

{Black Mafia} IC Death wrote:

after this round I'm done hopefully a lot of u vets feel the same way and we can boycott IC shit's dumb... if they want the losers and semi active players as the voice of IC so be it.. let it be known the game is dying not because of the players its because of the same mods and they stubborn ways and what its 5 of u guys and half of u don't play.. true nick u plays but whoelse plays.. nobody so we have to get a view for the entire game thru ur eyes.. nobody elses.. what u and only u find issues in will be a problem.. not like any of mods do anything to contribute to the game.. put active people on as mods.. not people who can give 2 craps about the game and old relics who keep mod because of their history..

When you get tips on how to best use a system from one of the developers of the system, and continue to ignore them that's on you.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale Option sucks major

funny how I've talked to every skilled vet and attacker in the game and they all agree yet ur the only one someone tho isn't that great of a attacker can say its a fair change lol.. no matter u just lost another 10-12 player anyway after this round anyway..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Morale Option sucks major

You can't stop it doesn't matter what defense you have. They can explore right next to your filled core systems and you won't be able to clear them all and then they have 1-2 tickers on all your bankers and ressors.. It was costing 25-50 morale for our smallest guy to hit their ppl exploring next to us. We even had all bankers and ressors retaking planets and they stopped opping to do so. You just can't clear fast enough when they are portalling in 25-30 ticks. And you just can't get everyone enough defense when you have to protect 6+ Ppl. They only have to jump one fleet... you've certainly accomplished you're goal of evening the playing field but it's just boring now. You might as well just give everyone a set amount of planets and infra and let them duke it out. At least that way you won't have every fam adjusting to the new rules by just not exploring and staying small.. Bc that's where this is going and it's just not fun. I won't participate in that.

So that being said when is a legit HC round gonna start lol

18 (edited by Lone Tiger 10-Jan-2016 11:47:44)

Re: Morale Option sucks major

I really want to post about how bad the moral system is.   But I don't think anyone really cares.  I think that who ever is in charge has already decided.  And the rest of us must learn to live with it, or find another game.

I think a lot of players here are starting to feel this way.  That there's not even a point in complaining about it, because no one seems to be listening.  You just keep setting up the same boring rounds, and never seem to notice that it's not working.

I really do think there's enough evidence that the system isn't working.  I think enough people have posted enough stuff to prove that the system isn't working.  I think this is stupid.  We keep complaining, and the pic (people in charge) refuse to even acknowledge that there's a problem.

It's not the problem that frustrating.  It's that you refuse to even acknowledge that there is a problem.  It's that you've decided the new moral system is going to be it.  And there is nothing that will ever change your mind.

You've decide to keep the moral system, even if it means the end of the game.  And no one is going to change your mind.

19 (edited by Lone Tiger 10-Jan-2016 11:53:49)

Re: Morale Option sucks major

Here's what I don't understand.  Even more then the mods denying that there's even a problem.  Why do you people keep playing.  Everyone keeps saying that the new moral system sucks, but you guys are still playing.   Why???

Maybe there really isn't any problem.

Re: Morale Option sucks major

Well if they don't do something I'm done after this round.. I'm not gonna quit mid round cause I don't like it.. but its dumb its a round with no possible wars cause morale burns to quickly so its imperial IC and its to the point to where people who aren't active can beat on larger fams and get away with it simply cause it cost too much morale to clear them.. so now semi active players can save like 30 ships send thema ll in ur core and it cost u about 30-40% morale to clear they raid ur bankers and shit and force u to NAP and that's what they are calling fair but no mods play IC except Nick so we only have his judgement on it after majority of the players say the morale system sucks.. mods are deaf probably.. once again we need a new mod team.. people don't wanna hear that shit when its clear as day.. a bunch of people who don't even play the game.. u cant give good info on whats good for a game u don't even play.. cant stick to old rules when ur changing the entire aspect of the game..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Morale Option sucks major

big infra means easy to get big defenses low infra means lower defense
big infra lead means players who are playing active low infra means players not that active  to get same result
and ya with nw wise you need to play smart no pop bankers just cfs saw it last round with nick as cf banker way safer also incase off ops pop banker you can kill complete income cf just lose some  with hurricanes  but still make some  nw off fam way lower results way better morale to spend on higher level who keeps infrawhore till they double our maybe higher in infra nw
for atackers is it way more fun in lower nw ranked fam with still solid infra to do things then in  a infrawhore fam with sitting like a duck you cant do a jackle then have nw problems because you wanna own all fams on infra

so no popbankers just cf bankers
dont take to high defenses if no need saves all nw! so also better morale to use  and what nick said is right use the core systems in old fashion playing field you did also always have locked core filling systems by systems incase you get small atackers intruding core what eated youre morale complete you only now have way better defensed  core keep filling up youre systems and it get also morale wise better protected

Lazyness> we are fighting with knives against guys with machine guns

Re: Morale Option sucks major

^ Not one single period used.

mbvX, jamjam, nobody, smax

23

Re: Morale Option sucks major

well thats what you get for napping the other biggest fam in the galaxy because you want to farm.

Re: Morale Option sucks major

The new morale system limits farming, but equally limits jumping on bigger targets. Makes no sense to save resources for a few days (wasting morale) and jump fleet on a bigger target only to discover you can only take 15 planets (because of your jumped NW).

Since morale is limited very much on both sides of the spectrum the game got boring.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: Morale Option sucks major

i actually like this new morale overhaul.. nobody dares to attack me big_smile