Topic: Morale for Attacks
General discussion for how the changes effected attacking
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General discussion for how the changes effected attacking
In general i think it works fine. I'm playing as an attacker in starburst.
TBH i must say i didn't have a lot of action except for some core cleaning so i will give my opinion about that aspect.
We had a small attacker from 01 exploring in our core, at SOR we were badly organised and i was the only one protecting our core. It did cost me a lot of morale to clear him because i was building resources as well. Still i manged to do so. In the end i can only conclude that if you have some active players then you will always be able to clean up your core.
The way morale is calculated also gives small families an advantage. So if an SA of a bigger family explores in your core then the difference between the big well organised family and the inactive smaller family that you are in should give you the possibility to clear him anyway.
On the other side, if a smaller family wants to have some fun they can explore in the core of a bigger family and they will have problems clearing because of the high morale lose. I think this adds a nice offensive aspect to the game. In the end, the bigger family should be more organised and produce more so even if the smaller family can get in a good spot to attack, it'll be very hard for them to break defense on a regular basis.
Small bit of information about the actual warring. The morale i lose when attacking bigger players is doable and i don't know how it works but my general vision is that when you declare war, morale lose should be even lower.
Second point, the formula calculates morale at the moment of attack. Does it take in account the planets you have at that moment or the planets you had the last tick? Because i think, if you want to keep attacking interesting, then you should use the planets and NW amount of the last tick. This way SA's can have some fun and warring with high number of planets moving around should still be possible.
In the end i think everyone wins.
Edit: Like said before, The need for having morale to send a fleet is a very very bad thing. It blocks you completely and doesn't add anything as morale lose will be taken when actually attacking.
Also; You should be able to go negative. Not attacking while negative in morale but attacking with positive morale and ending up negative. This will result in only being able to attack again when above or at 0% morale.
1: war made no big difference?
2: should be able to send with not enough morale.
3: we need to learn how to play with this more then it has to be changed.
first start by getting lots more morale planets in each round, and up the limit or remove it
Increase morale loss per attack so people can't attack me!
But really, in fams that dont have as many reliable players to help with ops and attacks, the lack of morale is an issue especially when only one or two attackers have to do their own ops. We don't have big families full of active people anymore!
should be more size orientated and not networth
Why? Doesn't nw reflect a family's overall capabilities better than size? I'd rather be going to war with a family at 10mil nw and 2000 planets than a family with 20mil nw and 1000 planets.
Because we still all agree size wins so don't make it hard to attaxk small fat fams
Because we still all agree size wins so don't make it hard to attaxk small fat fams
Actually...the driving force behind this change was to make it hard to farm small fams...
I like it! It really slows the farm ratio aspect of attacking. Now if your the bigger attacker you face more constraints when fighting a smaller empire b/c the new morale systems adjusts itself based on those calculations...
I've ran people down only slightly bigger than me w/out having to worry about the guy twice my size grilling. As has happened too me twice in the last Sb rounds.
You'll spend weeks regularly clearing cores, stealing spread, and busting portals. When the guy is 1-2 hundred thousand networth above or below you. Then some heavyweight will use you as cannon fodder too catch up with the other heavyweights who just smacked him around.
So for that I really like it! If I a guy is twice your networth he can't farm you for fifty plus planets before you ever had the fighting chance...
played as ss, I was in top family at time, was being hit by guy in number 2 family by guy twice my size, but still coast over 24 moral to hit back, so basically he could hit me twice to every 1 I hit back, now that we are in third it is not as bad, it is frustrating not to be able to defend our selfs, I can see where it would help a small family from being farmed, but it puts to much of diadvange to family similar in size and nw
played as ss, I was in top family at time, was being hit by guy in number 2 family by guy twice my size, but still coast over 24 moral to hit back, so basically he could hit me twice to every 1 I hit back, now that we are in third it is not as bad, it is frustrating not to be able to defend our selfs, I can see where it would help a small family from being farmed, but it puts to much of diadvange to family similar in size and nw
Either your family at #1 was over twice the size of their family at #2, or you had a crazy amount of planets for your nw. Those are the only scenarios where someone twice your nw could hit you and have those numbers make sense.
ok where is this a good part of game, Europe from number 2 family just hit me and took a planet, his NW 1007129 with 30 planets, I am in #3 family, NW 744498, 190 planets, but to retake my planet will coast me 40 moral points, if this is what you guys are shooting for, sorry I do not like it this way, think putting to much on planets and not enough on NW
(1601) [82,3] 1222 7979298 59432
2
Home Sweet Home (1596) [7,84] 1133 7862490 63453
3
We R The Inquisition!! (1602) [10,14] 1101 6522846 72229
4
Big Rising!! (1598) [83,34] 999 6079361 40341
5
Nameless (1603) [6,54] 1003 5120570 44024
6
~The Regeneration~ (1597) [57,84] 817 3386803 44338
7
(1600) [58,53] 648 3043558 37626
8
~!!! Piranhaz !!!~ (1599) [33,34] 691 2600655 33568
You realize that until we made this change nw didn't come into it at all...and it was all planet count...right?
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1. I think someone mentioned already, but war didn't seem to lower morale cost much, if at all?
2. Is there anywhere that the morale cost calculation is posted? Sorry if I've missed it. From my limited experience this round, it seems to me that family NW is not accounted for enough and individual NW is too big of a factor. e.g. I think that families similarly sized in NW incur too much morale cost for attacking each other when the individuals vary widely in NW.
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You realize that until we made this change nw didn't come into it at all...and it was all planet count...right?
no I did not know that, but you could look at someone's NW and know if you had a chance or not, now I have been only playing a few rounds, but always figured on NW when planning attacks, it was a pretty good indicator on fleet strength, I could be wrong but fleet strength had more to do with your NW than numbers of planets, so you want this game to be about not getting any planets because if you have to many you will be penalized, that the advantage will always go to whoever have the fewest planets, then why explore
just explored some planets, no time to do anything with them, a guy with 16 planets hit them and because I just explored them he was able to take them, but it will cost me 100 moral points to take back, so why explore
am done with this round, I know I am just 1 guy, but will not play with this system, not going to waste my time trying to get as big as I can and have it panelized for having to many planets
Next round I'm playing without attackers because we can win by just exploring.
I would initiate a hard cap on max morale loss here as well. And not 100 morale. Remove the 110 morale maximum, since you can't go negative in morale anymore. It should be 100. The maximum for an attack should be 50 morale. Also, tie morale loss into attack bonus somehow. The less attack bonus you have, the less morale you would lose during attacks. That will keep non-attacking focused races in the mix, change custom races to a more dynamic setup, and let attackers hunt other attackers more effectively. It would benefit active fams, and yet still allow families that don't have specific attacker races the ability to survive against families that do. More morale would compensate for less fleet since most of their attacks would be retakes and not actual planet gains.
Personally now when everything costs you morale intra family attacks should cost you nothing, maybe remove the morale limit so it is unlimited just keeps going up when you are not doing attacks?
There should be a cap on what an attack should cost you as people coring you now is a huge problem! When it costs 100morale to remove 1 planet and he has 9 you have no chance...
I think it costs to much to attack also my family got raided now when we tried to raid back we managed to hit like 18 planets and morale was all gone
I wake up and I'm out of moral that tick. Seems boring to me. Maybe if both fams declare war with each other there is no moral loss ?
I get the farming part but right now we are in a war not started by us but are bigger and can't keep up. Now imagine last place fam declared war also on one of us.
1. I think someone mentioned already, but war didn't seem to lower morale cost much, if at all?
2. Is there anywhere that the morale cost calculation is posted? Sorry if I've missed it. From my limited experience this round, it seems to me that family NW is not accounted for enough and individual NW is too big of a factor. e.g. I think that families similarly sized in NW incur too much morale cost for attacking each other when the individuals vary widely in NW.
Not entirely true. Depends on what infra is on planets. Poppers for instance can have none and also have gigantic nw just from pop...
Or the researcher who prebuild loads of infra and fluctuates with his builds...
Maybe exploring should cost morale and attacking cost morale correlating calculations made off opponents net worth and then then empire being attacked families planet count.
So if the player is as small a researcher but his family is largest in gal it won't affect the guy who is attacking but has 180 planets compared too the 1.9 thousand the family as a whole has???
So the popper trying to retake in cores would be contradicted the same way when removing attackers...
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