Topic: So that climate change fraud stuff...

I think we should pursue criminal charges... I am ready to say we have the required evidence now.

My case relies upon three key aspects, and is solid. It is supported by numerous white papers and shows that there is indeed criminal level efforts to create a panic.

The first is data collection. In this regards we have four key elements of deliberate malfeasance. They are:

1) Station Placement
Improperly placing new stations, removal of existing stations, and moving existing stations has been going on significantly in the last two decades. This has created higher temperatures via not removing/modifying stations at locations likely to increase ambient heat recordings and via removing stations, or moving them, that are likely to lower ambient temperature readings. www.surfacestations.org has documented a severe issue in two separate white papers on the temp station placement. This includes photo evidence of the vast majority of weather stations in the United States.

On going efforts to document weather stations in England, Australia, France, and other European nations has started to demonstrate similar problems, where the average temperature reading is probably about 1 degree Celsius higher than they should be in reality.

2) Tree Rings
There has been some very selective use of tree rings in various locations, where it is clear the scientists involved threw out the temperatures they did not want, and chose only specific trees that could be used to deceive that there is AGW based climate change

3) Measurements
Those who have been claiming AGW have had issues of measurement for a very long time on the North and South Poles. In fact their instrumentation issues have been long talked about on this forum. In the criminal review we are more interested in the deliberate discarding of evidence shown to the people financially involved in AGW that counters their studies. A true scientist would examine the new evidence, modify their claims upon it, or retract their claim in exchange for the new claims by the new evidence.

4) Discarding Old Records
This is of extreme bias in science, and is demonstrative of the fraudulent behavior of the AGW Alarmists. There are many records being discarded, or even deliberately destroyed. In one famous case records of weather in Australia were destroyed under a fiction that those records were tainted because the weather stations lacked a certain item. This item was not installed until the 60's and 70's however.

Another significant record being ignored deliberately is the English Naval Records of ice, icebergs, and glaciers in the N. Atlantic and on Greenland. This nation has hundreds of years of records painstakingly taken.


The second major aspect is modification of data. I cite four methods this has been going on.

1) Homogenization
This is the most severe of the aspects, and deserves the front of the pack. In this we see warm locations being used to adjust temperatures in locations where there are no weather stations and in regions with low temperatures but not in reverse as commonly. This is also affected by the weather station removal and placement issue talked about above.

Homogenization is impossible to accurately commit because warm fronts and cold fronts are not stationary, terrain differs significantly (forests are able to cool where deserts do not), because clouds, rain, snow pack, and other issues are not accounted for, nor could be accounted for.

2) Carbon Dioxide Abilities
This is a nuanced argument, where there is evidence that carbon cools the atmosphere, but where the persons engaged in Fraud do not include this aspect at all and do not even give the idea lip service.

3) FOIA Requests
There has been a lot of efforts to identify how these scientists under government funding are getting their conclusions. These scientists and a large number of government workers are hiding behind claims that the information is proprietary information of a private company and they cannot reveal, using alternate emails for their communications, and in denying FOIA requests as much as possible, or delaying on them as long as possible. By making claims of such they are modifying the status of the data to make it inaccessible to review.

4) Rewriting of Data
There is evidence that some weather stations have 'estimates' due to lesser equipment, that some satellites gave different data, and that some data was just rewritten outright. GISS is one of the more well known with the modification of Arctic Data. There is evidence of significant data tampering at various institutions and organizations.


The third major section is collusion to commit fraud

This will not be using bullet points but just laying it out. Climategate Emails were certainly proof of collusion, but we also have evidence of deliberate destruction of careers of those questioning the conclusions of these people as well. There is enough evidence in existence to show a web of activity working in collusion for the highest of climate alarmist scientists and politicians. The only question is how much collusion a specific individual was involved in anymore.

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Motive is simple to prove, most of these scientists do not have the degrees and experience to move to different teaching positions or scientific positions. Thus they would suffer unemployment, ridicule, and humility. Some stand to gin significantly financially, such as Al Gore who was set to become a billionaire at one point based upon his political connections and the carbon trading scheme.

Others have the motive of destruction of those that they see offensive, such as coal mines, coal power, and the likes.


How do we proceed?
I suggest Grand Jury hearings with the maximum number of defendants per jurisdiction. The vast number of such hearings will mean word will leak, and with the leaks some will come forward seeking immunity for their testimony. Yet more will flee to nations where they think they can avoid extradition. Between those two groups we will have enough evidence for the lay person to understand that YES there is indeed a large scale conspiracy to defraud the public.

I suggest seizing the assets of the top 15% or so, as a means to offset some of the harm they did and to show that profiting on such a scheme is dangerous as it may backfire. I further recommend jail terms for ALL involved except those who turn witness. Those witnesses who turn yet are in the top 15% must still suffer financially, but perhaps not all assets (Leave enough to simulate an honest middle class income?) as this leaves less for us to use against the vast majority.



Conclusion
This has been a wide and varied effort at fraud, and I think I have summed up enough of the evidence that a prosecutor, using evidence easily found in this forum and elsewhere, can convince a jury made up of laymen to convict on fraud the vast majority of Alarmists who are in scientific and political positions.


Extra: I wrote this yesterday on Facebook and to a very high end science group of climate skeptics I was recently invited to. I since found out that a very notable scientist has made an inquiry to Prime Minister Abbott to seek charges on the very obvious homogenization modifications the MET Office had done and was found out about. Criminal proceedings... it could happen fairly soon and would start a cascade around the world!

Also if you are not aware there is nearly 18 years now without any temperature increase, despite CO2 increases. Also man is so low a contributor that if we removed ALL CO2 we produce the atmosphere will still pass 400ppm within a few short years. It will continue climbing for the foreseeable future even if we were to end all power generation, car usage, and the likes.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Strange forum to debate this smile

Simple and elegant experiment that shows the effect of increased CO2-concentrations on temperature: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPRd5GT0v0I

I find results from antartic ice rather definitive to prove the relation: CO2-(EQUIVALENTS) & solar activity vs avarage temperature on earth

Your argument about no increase in temperature over the last 18 years isn't that strong. If you look at: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/

you will see that 1940 - 1980 also was rather stable in temperature. It is more likely there is some buffer capacity that keeps the system / temperature stable. If the buffercapacity exceeds its limit there will be an increase again if you keep pressuring it.

Alot of systems on earth are non-linear. Pressure it and it will keep it's balance. Pressure it to much and the systems will collapse and cannot return to it's previous state.

If you want to understand this process I recommend a course in non-linear differential equations.

As for scientific fraud. This should be punished. Also the perverted puublication targets should be banned.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

your simple experiment is actually bad. In fact in scientific communities it is a target of much derision.

As for the 18 year claim https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/ … 6ad13cfd28 hope you can do facebook

Antartic is setting a new size record already..
http://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2014 … me-record/

yawn...

The big issue right now is the criminal level altering, removal, and editing of data in Australia where they were falsifying data before and after a crap process known as homogenization. Very deliberate malfeasance and without their tinkering shows that Australia, like the United States, has been cooling for the last 18 years, not even remaining stable.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

*Sigh*

When will you ever learn Einstein... if the criminal activity supports those who make/enforce the laws then the law will support that activity.  The government collects a lot of taxes to create the ammunition to fight this mythological boogie man and seeing there is nothing to fight - this leaves an abundance of left over cash for them to kick back to various donors.

You mention in your original post about stations being moved... who do you think owns those stations?  Who do you thinks owns the construction company that builds/rebuilds/moves them?  Who do you think owns and sells the land that gets purchased to put them on?  They don't need to move the stations to get the data they want, as you pointed out they make up the data anyways.  They move them because you can't justify asking for a 5 million dollar grant for someone siting in a shack with a thermometer.  But you can launder 5 Million bucks if you say you need to set up "Global Climate Observation Stations" in order to save the world and then you can come back a few years later and ask for more dough to then move them.

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Both Beowolfe and Flint are bad at math

which has more money to lose from Climate change being right/wrong? Scientists with their tens of thousands of dollars, or oil companies with their tens of billions? And you think somehow it is scientists that are lying to us to get money?

but hey, if you want to ruin the earth for all future generations, I can't stop you think that is an ok thing to do

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

let me fix this

You_Fool wrote:

Both Beowolfe and Flint are bad at math

which has more money to lose from Climate change being right/wrong? Scientists with their tens of trillions of dollars, or oil companies with their tens of billions? And you think somehow it is oil companies that are lying to us to get money?

but hey, if you want to ruin the earth for all future generations, I can't stop you think that is an ok thing to do

There is so much government money being spent, so much power beig added, that it should be suspect from the start. But the evidence shows fraud and severe fraud.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Trillions?  Now I'm curious on that math.

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Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000

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Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

9 (edited by The Yell 22-Sep-2014 19:03:30)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Bill Nye's experiment is flawed because it measures the heat retention of a denser gas, and not the reflective properties of CO2.

also LMAO about sea ice.  Now they're saying "OH yeah sure the temporary sea ice is growing this year, but, the ancient glaciers are melting!"

Old growth ice!  LMAO

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Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

Portion spent directly in US funds at Federal level (does not include costs from regulations, other nations, the States, NGO spending, and so forth)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2 … -hysteria/

More links to come

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor … -research/

Another lil bit

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cla … 12223.html

110 billion in germany

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/10/22/ … l-warming/

Says here $359 billion in 2013 spent.

Again does not include costs of regulations. Example of some such is low power vaccums in Europe, low carbon fuel for California, the stuff killing coal companies in the United States, and the the likes.

Also add the jobs lost thanks to the hysteria, which if you added all the incomes up could easily equal a trillion USD a year (primary example Spain, where the drive to do solar and wind is killing their economy, driving power and tax costs ever more up.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: So that climate change fraud stuff...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/ … rming.html

US jobs lost...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)