1 (edited by V. Kemp 06-Feb-2014 05:09:46)

Topic: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Another casualty of the "drug war" lining CIA and other ruling-class pockets with their monopoly of the black-market price-inflated drug trade.

If Philip Seymour Hoffman could have bought his heroin at Walgreens he'd know the dosage and not have overdosed. [Edit: Not technically "overdosed"--It'd be pure and he wouldn't have been killed by unknown additives]

For what?

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and it's obviously not working with other controlled substances either.

It's lining the pockets of drug lords and financing drug wars over this big-profit black market trade--wars which otherwise wouldn't happen. There are no wars fought over legal pharmaceuticals. Profit-margins don't economically justify them.

It's being used as an excuse to militarize police. No-knock raids and armored personnel carriers? The supposed "drug war" is the excuse police use for this illegal overuse of government violence.

The "drug war" didn't stop Philip Seymour Hoffman from using heroin. It killed him for using it. And that hurts more than the user; this man's children are now fatherless. Laws that do more damage to society than the behavior they're supposedly there to stop/discourage are obviously idiotic and counterproductive.

Of course heroin is horrible. Of course I don't support anyone ruining their life with it.

But maybe it's about time we start having the discussion of whether or not it's actually wise to lock a man up for decades, in the prime of his life, for trading in an illegal market. Not robbing old ladies. Not abusing children. Nothing violent at all. For trading goods in an unsanctioned market.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

People use these drugs generally for a high, buzz or what ever.  When they do it a second time, i think it is a form of release.  They are escaping a world for a reason only they know.  It is also the same a suicide.  Put that crap in your arm, you are risking it every time whether they are luck or not. 

Odds are that they will die one way or another.  I was a fan of Hoffman, but it was clear he wanted to escape, why else would he go back to drugs and alcohol after being off them for so long. 

Locking people up for selling this crap might stop kids from at least trying it. It is sad when watching the news and seeing how probable first time users die at a party because he was available to them.

You might be a king or little kid sweeper.  Sooner or later, you'll dance with the Reaper....

3 (edited by V. Kemp 05-Feb-2014 11:02:56)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Dear lord it's hard to research a topic so spammed by political hacks and organizations trying to sell stuff.

I saw a doctor on the tele talking about how 1% of heroin users die from overdose annually, and that most heroin addicts stop by their '40s (largely because it's economically unfeasible to keep it up). I've found a few repeats of this 1% annual claim online but can't find an original source for it--nor can I find any claims conflicting it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2039886/ roughly correlates this, finding that "[o]n average, addicts in this cohort [heroin users] lost 18.3 years" (years of potential life lost).

The fact that none of the plethora of anti-drug websites cite an annual mortality rate strongly suggests it's certainly not "[o]dds are that they will die" from anything relating to heroin.

My search for a source for this statistic also taught me that heroin overdose is almost always from impure heroin (a result of the "drug war"), diseases contracted from needles (also a result of the "drug war"--needles are cheap) and mixing heroin with other drugs--not a result of heroin dosage by itself. (http://tinyurl.com/mzubphh / http://tinyurl.com/kakj4w3) I'm shocked to be learning that heroin itself is not as potentially fatal as I thought when I started reading today.

First time users are dying because of the "drug war" and the impure heroin they're buying from an unregulated black market, not pure heroin. The deaths you fear are another example for my argument that the "drug war" is more harmful than drugs, not an example of heroin being dangerous in its pure form (which it would be in, were it regulated like OTC meds).

In any event, that people who use drugs are "asking for it" is not a response to my post. If someone died because a bottle of bourbon was poisoned, that'd be a poisoning fatality, not death by alcoholism.

Now you've made a guess that maybe the "drug war" is keeping drugs out of the hands of the children. Well, for the children, of course I can turn off my brain and give in to emotion. But, can we find any evidence that this is actually true? Does drug criminalization (which certainly kills people) prevent children from abusing drugs?

"Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 … -portugal/

Lucky me. NORML did some research for me (and included citation):
"Marijuana Decriminalization & Its Impact on Use" (This one's just about cannabis, but if we're going to generalize let's generalize)
http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/ma … t-on-use-2

"Global report: Decriminalization does not increase rates of drug use"
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/07/g … -drug-use/

An interesting read:
"Supply-Side Drug Policy: Will It Ever Work?" (includes citation)
http://faculty.winthrop.edu/stonebraker … edrugs.htm

I'm not finding evidence that the "drug war" is saving the children. Most people don't do drugs because most people don't want to. Tons of drugs still cascade over the US border, but most people still aren't using.

As for those who use (more proof that the "drug war" is a complete failure), prohibition didn't stop alcohol consumption, and the "war on drugs" isn't stopping millions of Americans from using drugs. You're dismissing people we know the "drug war" is hurting and killing by comparing them to people you imagine it saves. You're not remotely equipped to make the calculation that the "drug war" is harming less people than it's supposedly saving from themselves. You don't have evidence; you have faith.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Beyond its toxicity, long term side effects of heroin use can be deadly too, ranging from abscesses to infections of the heart lining and valves. Dr. Jack B. Stein, Director of the Office of Science Policy and Communications at the National Institute on Drug Abuse calls situations like Walker’s "unique." Under tobacco, heroin is the second most addicting narcotic, he explains, triggering dependency in 23 percent of the people who use it. “But what might be extremely addictive for one person won’t be for another," he tells The Daily Beast. "Not everyone who uses heroin gets addicted.”



Medical consequences of chronic heroin injection use include scarred and/or collapsed veins, bacterial infections of the blood vessels and heart valves, abscesses (boils) and other soft-tissue infections, and liver or kidney disease. Lung complications (including various types of pneumonia and tuberculosis) may result from the poor health condition of the abuser as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration. Many of the additives in street heroin may include substances that do not readily dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. Immune reactions to these or other contaminants can cause arthritis or other rheumatologic problems.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Heroin is what killed Hoffman, and Heroin alone.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

If Philip Seymour Hoffman could have bought his heroin at Walgreens he'd know the dosage and not have overdosed

Oh oh! Neofascist Spock waging the War on Home Remedies!  Why can't free citizens mix their own drugs, Spock? Why do they have to wait in line, hat in hand, asking the MAN to license them as pharmacologists?  Answer: $$$$ to Big Drugstores!!!!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Lmao, nice jab Chris!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/02/04/ … e-tripled/

Pot kills

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Ignoring my arguments is just conceding them. If you had a rational refutation of my argument that the "Drug War" is hurting people and enriching thugs, you'd have made it.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Drugs r bad, mkay

There's no GOOD and SAFE quantity of heroin to put in into your ass

for all you know PSH meant to kill himself. If I were in Hunger Games movies I'd off myself too

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

*twang* *snick* the last sounds Chris ever hears for that insult

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

12 (edited by The Yell 06-Feb-2014 18:44:25)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

How do you know he was killed by impurities and not by overexerting his flabby self with super pure high quality organic GMO-free heroin?

"But maybe it's about time we start having the discussion of whether or not it's actually wise to lock a man up for decades, in the prime of his life, for trading in an illegal market. Not robbing old ladies. Not abusing children. Nothing violent at all. For trading goods in an unsanctioned market."

So true.  We should use them for penal labor battalions and then lock them up when they're worn out.

"oh drugs are bad but can we REALLY punish anybody for selling it to people who get ruined? Can we? Really?"

Yes. We can.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2014/02/05/po … -face-off/

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

14 (edited by V. Kemp 07-Feb-2014 03:01:12)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

And The Yell hits us with sound logic which would also indict gun-manufacturers when guns are used in crimes and prosecute the makers of unhealthy food for fatasses the world over! And positively is a clear argument for the prohibition of alcohol!

It's not like Dr. William Stewart Halsted, AKA "father of modern surgery" was on heroin for decades!

Or this link contains a bunch of other badass people who've given the world more than you or I!
http://www.popcrunch.com/15-geniuses-wh … g-addicts/

No! You've decided that people don't own their own bodies! You do!

And regardless that you're not remotely equipped to compare the massive harm done by "Drug War" to the benefits you imagine (because apparently illegality and social inability to score drugs on the huge black market are the only things keeping you clean--although you may be a drinker, taking you beyond irrationality to hypocrisy too), you rant for your position based on faith because you can't logically argue for your faith.

I don't dispute that drugs are harmful to people. You haven't argued against anything I actually posted.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Guns stop rapists, which drugs stop them?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Drugs can stop criminals too!

"Eh, that sounds like an alright way to spend the afternoon, but what I'd REALLY like to do is go get more Doritos!"

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

17 (edited by V. Kemp 07-Feb-2014 07:37:11)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

And unhealthy food has a productive purpose? And alcohol, which is far more impairing to one's ability to drive than marijuana, serves some positive good? And rampant prescription drug abuse? And horrible lifestyle decisions which feed into even more MASSIVE prescription drug abuse (many of said drugs being measurably far more damaging to the human body than heroin)?

No, wait. The constitution protects people from your desired fascism. You like it sometimes; you detest it other times. You have no logical reason for which times you praise and demand freedom and which times you detest freedom. You just have a herd mentality, ignorance, and fear at the direction of your political overlords.

Drugs don't stop criminals like guns, so drugs should be illegal. Except this logic shouldn't apply to alcohol, for no logical reason. Or cigarettes. Or poison-filled fast food. Or other horrible lifestyle choices.

SOME drugs should be illegal, and OTHER drugs (even other opiates of similar origin, chemical composition, and function) should be completely legal to be pushed by big profit companies which influence not only our legal system but our healthcare system (with monopoly controls by the FDA and AMA--in case you didn't know who to bribe to push drugs legally in the USA). You don't know about this [spit], so [cluck] it, let some bureaucrat determine what you have the right to use and what you don't. That's the entirety of your position.

You offer no logical argumentation. You challenge none of my factual bases for my arguments nor the logic of my argumentation. You have no explanation for your openly hypocritical positions. You offer no explanations of why you downplay (or rather, completely discount/ignore) my arguments without refutation/argument/disagreement in any form. You offer no explanations of which factual bases of my arguments you challenge (thus challenging my conclusions). Your response to sound reasoning based in facts is an effective "NUH UH" void of any explanation or counter-argument.

Your ramblings are absolutely juvenile and irrational, without exception. You haven't challenged, argued against, or debated a single thing I've argued.

"Well they're not good for you!" is not a rebuttal of my clearly stated arguments. I know they're not good for anybody. I don't do them. I never have. I detest the use of them. All of this is irrelevant and misses every point of every argument I have made.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

18 (edited by The Yell 07-Feb-2014 18:54:13)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

No, wait. The constitution protects people from your desired fascism.

Nope. Either you're ignorant of the widespread "blue laws" that have existed in every state from the beginning -- and the federal excise on whiskey and ban on all unregistered unlicensed whiskey that led up to the Shays Rebellion -- or you're a liar.

Your ramblings are absolutely juvenile and irrational, without exception. You haven't challenged, argued against, or debated a single thing I've argued.

Typical kook spew. "I disagree with you SO MUCH, your argument NEVER EXISTED!! muhahaha! YOU SAID NOTHING TO MY GENIUS! I WIN!!!

Inventing your own reality and demanding we accept it is a pretty good definition of insanity.

Drugs don't stop criminals like guns, so drugs should be illegal. Except this logic shouldn't apply to alcohol, for no logical reason. Or cigarettes. Or poison-filled fast food. Or other horrible lifestyle choices.

Are you claiming cigarettes and food and alcohol isn't regulated?

I can make alcohol in a plastic bag by letting fruit rot in water.  That's why its not banned still. 

To explain the totally negative effects of heroin use, I yield to Phillip Seymour Hoffman

...

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

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Maybe if he only reads 1 in 100 links he might read one of these.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

You don't have evidence; you have faith.

Sounds like a libertarian arguing I have some duty NOT to incarcerate a drug user for years, because it harms him somehow.  Or me, somehow.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

It comes down to the last 2 men on Earth, and 1000 of the cutest ladies.

Einstein sizes Kemp up, who does not realize it is Einstein. Einstein has planned for this event! He hands Kemp a joint, then another Joint.

Kemp keeps smoking.

Einstein quietly slips behind Kemp and garrotes him. Humanity is saved!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

tHE WAR ON DRUGS


ENDS


HERE!!!!!111

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

Yes it can end here, we just need to execute those advocating, using, dealing, and then we are all good... bit overkill though, but I think Chris would endorse this... I do not, but meh, maybe we should let Chris rule the world for a day.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZG0fBMT7Tc

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: The "Drug War" Killed Philip Seymour Hoffman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RRh-g-CC8g

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)