Topic: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

It’s become a quarterly ritual: Amazon reports that it’s losing money, and its investors cheer and hand over more. Pundits shake their heads in wonder. And Amazon’s competitors tremble in existential terror.

My colleague Matt Yglesias once half-joked that the company amounts to “a charitable organization being run by elements of the investment community for the benefit of consumers.” Bezos denied this, insisting that the interests of Amazon customers and shareholders will align in the long run. One thing nearly everyone agrees on, though: Amazon’s ridiculously low margins cannot be good for its rivals in the retail sector, who aren’t blessed with the same license from investors to lose money quarter after quarter.

I don’t have a lot to add to what Yglesias has already said about the company, except to point out that yet another quarterly earnings report shows Amazon increasing its revenue while failing (or, more accurately, refusing) to make any profit whatsoever. This time it posted $17 billion in net sales, reported a net loss of $41 million, and saw its stock leap nearly 10 percent.

What I can add is this rather mind-boggling chart from the statistics portal Statista.com, which drives home Amazon’s uncanny ability to avoid making money in the clearest form I’ve ever seen. Jeff Bezos is like King Midas in reverse: All the gold he touches turns to something else.

Amazon revenue profits chart
Illustration courtesy of Statista.com

In all seriousness, it must take incredible skill to keep spending every dollar you take in, quarter after quarter, even as your revenues grow by leaps and bounds. This past quarter, the company managed to pull it off by blowing hundreds of millions on a techno-utopian campus, continuing to lose money on its terrible investment in LivingSocial, and hiring an incredible 12,800 new employees in just three months. Its headcount now exceeds that of Microsoft.

This coming quarter will pose perhaps the company’s biggest challenge yet, as Amazon is almost sure to see its revenue leap to a new all-time high over the holidays. But I, for one, have confidence that Bezos will find a way to spend every last dime. The man is a true master of not making money.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense … chart.html

follow the link for the fun chart.  Maybe Xeno is right and the rest of us are stupidly stuck in the 17th century when you got paid for delivering stuff and the rich guys made more deliveries.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

The investors, they know he grows the value, see... if he did not truly grow the value of da stock an' company he be swimmin wit teh fishes, see.

He be doin it right, or dey be sizin him for da cement shoes, an votin him out.

Right now his 40 mil a year is a dozen new delivery centers, new products, disposable staff on an investment effort, and none of dis displeases da bosses.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

i read about a guy named Ponzi who grew the value

until he didn't

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

Ponzi did not build wealth, he transferred it.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

Einstein wrote:

Ponzi did not build wealth, he transferred it.

And this is exactly what is happening, a mass transfer of wealth from poor to rich.

And yes I am onto something, a systemic problem the exact nature of which I don't pretend to understand.

It is a systemic problem that has been ongoing since the dawn of civilization, to the extent that we think it is normal when it isn't.

The culmination of my independent studies in multiple disciplines has led me to the conclusion that a new social networking venue is needed whereby people can get together for the purpose of sharing truths that are important to them, share their perceptions of the implications of such truths, and share access to their authentic debates and discussions on ideas for solutions to problems implied by the truths that they share.

This should occur through a decentralized, foolproof social networking platform whereby incorruptible up-voting system provides for democratic refining process whereby the most important truths, most important implications of truths, and thereby the most important debates and discussions for solutions to problems implied by the truths that we share get the most exposure to the widest possible, global audience. 

If this were to occur, a process would begin whereby such authentic debates and discussions on the most important implications of truths and best the ideas for solutions to problems implied by such truths lead us all to a greater awareness of the exact nature of whatever this pan-civilization systemic problem is exactly and how we can work to solve it.

I believe such is essential for the survival of our species as well as most other species on Earth.

6 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:42:52)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

[EDIT: Rules discussion, mentioned below]

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

7 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:37:38)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

[EDIT: Rules discussion, mentioned below]

8 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:38:04)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

[EDIT: Rules discussion, mentioned below]

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

well they are linked in that my criticism of Xeno has been that his ideas

1. lose money from day one
2. require everybody to get involved

and here's Bezos making that pay

CURSE YOU BEZOS! CURRRRRSSSE YOUUUUUU!!!!!!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

Zarf,

I assumed the Yell knew that I and the rest of people who are concerned are boycotting Amazon for tax avoidance (and other issues).

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts … mazon.aspx

As such, I expected The Yell was just expressing how the rest of concerned people and I are right to do so.  I expected the conversation to follow, then, to be about other matters of concern that relate to whatever it is that I am onto here.

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts … slist.aspx

11 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:38:34)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

[EDIT: Rules discussion, mentioned below]

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

12 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:38:51)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

[EDIT: Rules discussion, mentioned below]

13 (edited by The Great Eye 28-Oct-2013 22:42:18)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

After reviewing the matter with other moderators, I'm going to rescind my stance and allow the discussion due to extenuating circumstances within the thread.  That being said, I'm going to clean up the debate about the debate here, because the issue's been discussed and dealt with then.  (Although I'm leaving one of xeno's posts because the associated links seem to be on-topic and useful in advancing the actual discussion at hand).

Carry on!

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

14 (edited by Xeno 28-Oct-2013 23:16:33)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

Zarf deleted my boycott Amazon link:

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts … mazon.aspx

Other boycotts:

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts … slist.aspx

Amazon's practice is to under-report profits through a 'legal', albeit in my opinion unethical, tax avoidance scheme.  Investors know this, which is why they are happy.

Many companies do this, just one of the unethical ways in which business operates, only one of the reasons we need a consumer revolution.

But need to practice first by having a Player Revolution on IC here - see the IC Player Revolution thread in general for more information.

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

No, I actually specifically left those two links in.  See post 11.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

Oh, okay, looks like he restored the links.

17 (edited by Xeno 30-Oct-2013 22:23:41)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

What is it that I am onto here
--------------------------------------
This game is designed according to the same paradigm by which our civilzation is designed; like this game is designed so that those who are 'perceived' to be the strong (the veteran players) derive their 'strength' by exploiting and destroying those who are perceived to be the 'weak', which are essentially new players, or players who are thinking of leaving the game and are thus inactive.   

So too does our civilzation operate this way.  Tyrants, who are perceived as 'strong' tend to derive their strength by oppressing and exploiting those who are perceived as 'weak'; and social systems are constructed so as to keep the weak from binding together according to demonstrate the altruistic tendency of their nature, keeping them isolated, disenfranchised, and thus easy prey for would be tyrannical systems of control.

This is always how civilization has functioned, and deep down we all know it; we know it in spite of the mechanisms put in place to indoctrinate us into thinking that such systems are somehow legitimate.  Such systems that subvert altruism and reward the paradigm of malevolent self-interest are NOT legitimate.  In fact, they are completely, utterly, and wholly morally bankrupt. 

All you got to do to see such systems is ask very simple question: why are things the way they are?  Consider such question as the little blue pill (or was it the red one) that Neo took to awake from the Matrix.

Why are things the way they are?

After asking this question, and coming to many answers (many truths) as derived by my personal, independent study and life experiences, I have come to the conclusion that shoptivism might be a good idea for me, personally, to do my part in spreading awareness of the inherent injustice and to do my part in changing the way things are in the world.

I've also come to the conclusion that a little practice revolution on this website, an " IC Player's Revolution" might be a good way to practice and prepare for the "Consumer's Revolution" that I suspect will necessary to change things.

If we humans are to provide for remedies to the inherent moral bankruptcy of the way things are and avoid the extinction of our species and other species, such a consumer revolution I think is necessary.

Our system is designed to make us complicit and responsible for the continuous mass-murder of humans and other species on Earth by our consumerism: poverty, despair, dysfunction, subversion of individual as well as collective human potential, all for the sake of the excess of the few, is the result. 

Regardless of whether or not a consumer revolution is the best course of action, the impacts of our consumerism and common moral decency dictates the need for transformational change to the system, somehow. 

I personally think having an IC Player's Revolution to learn how to change such a morally bankrupt system such as this game as it is designed, is a good starting point for learning how to change similarly morally bankrupt systems of civilization by whose continued operations are destroying our children's future. 

This would be good practice for us to learn how to change the morally bankrupt system which is civilization itself, perhaps, again, sooner rather than later; at least before this game continues to run out of player membership due to us being forced to kill-off our new joiners' as well as our older veterans' who have lost the will to play anymore from within such its malevolent paradigm.

18 (edited by Key 04-Nov-2013 23:19:20)

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

"an incredible 12,800 new employees in just three months"

That's not quite correct.  They subcontracted a lot of work to other business', and in other ways they bought otu other business, and are now transitioning those business to close. 

Just because they merged with other companies, and all the sudden they posted to have "hired"...actually they didn't.  You add employees onto the payroll, but that doesn't mean your going to keep them.  And that's something that investors don't look at.  They see a company that is hiring, and they figure, well if they're hiring, they are making money.  They could be losing millions of dollars, but as long as they keep the slight of hand info rolling, then all those employees can be brainless undead zombies in 12,800 coffins.

Amazon has what I call a water balloon.  The more water you put in, the bigger the balloon gets, but the thinner the margins become.  In time, those margins will reach a critical phase and POP.  And all that water hits the ground spreading in every direction.

Remember, no information is ever lost.  Just like no dollar is ever lost.  Dollar out of one man's pocket, is the same dollar being put in someone elses pocket.  Ask any Economist, or any college or university economics professor.  The money is never lost.  It only transfers ownership.

So $41 million dollars invested went into someone's pocket.  Or even many someone's.  When Amazon crashes, your going to see bidding wars on products.  Your also going to see Wall Street investors sending litigation left and right, and may even have consumer watchdogs start looking into financial assets and records.  It'll be hell.

It'll be FUN.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

The Yell wrote:

Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

No.

Turn on - Tune in - Drop out

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

The rich need more power to stop the rich from stealing from the poor. I'm with Xeno on this one.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Maybe Xeno Is Onto Something

lol