1 (edited by Key 11-Nov-2013 19:09:57)

Topic: Oil companies at their worst.

http://money.msn.com/business-news/arti … d=17081108

http://money.msn.com/business-news/arti … amp;isub=2


The top story refers to Evolution Petroleums continueing problems with "Fracking" even though they did not use the word fracking.  In conjuction with damaged or overworked or prior wells which are damaged or showing wear or damage.

The second story is the companies future outlook about the same oilfield.  If you notice certain terms and sentances in the first story, you'll see they do not match up with the second story on profit earnings.

HOWEVER...if you look at the final paragraph at the end of both stories, you'll see that the company itself takes NO responsibilty to any losses incurred to their inability to tell the truth about the problems they are currently having, and that they are not fortune tellers.  Even though they have working knowledge of the problems their oil production is having, which should be a very good indicator that they got massive problems.

So in essence, they said they are doing great, but in reality they're doing poorly, due to continueing problems with the wells they are currently working on, or have worked on.

In essence they're a bunch of lieing sonofabitch's.

Do you believe that companies, especially those in the Energy market, should be allowed to spin tall tails, when reality shows problems otherwise.

Like how Wall Street termed the Great Recession as, "Strong headwinds."  A cigar is but a cigar, and a problem is a problem.  So when does lieing about problems incur that you tell the market and investors that your doing great, when your not.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Incorrect.

First, the paragraph in question:

"All statements contained in this press release regarding potential results and future plans and objectives of the Company are forward-looking statements that involve various risks and uncertainties. There can be no assurance that such statements will prove to be accurate and actual results and future events could differ materially from those anticipated in such statements. The Company undertakes no obligation to update or review any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. Important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations include, but are not limited to, those factors that are disclosed under the heading "Risk Factors" and elsewhere in our documents filed from time to time with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission and other regulatory authorities. Statements regarding our ability to complete transactions, successfully apply technology applications in the re-development of oil and gas fields, realize future production volumes, realize success in our drilling and development activity and forecasts of legal claims, prices, future revenues and income and cash flows and other statements that are not historical facts contain predictions, estimates and other forward-looking statements. Although the Company believes that its expectations are based on reasonable assumptions, it can give no assurance that its goals will be achieved and these statements will prove to be accurate. Important factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those included in the forward-looking statements."



That paragraph is actually fairly common in business forecasts, and for good reason.  If I told someone to tell me how their financial future would be over the next year, they could probably give me a good idea.  However, unexpected results or unforeseen circumstances can throw that prediction into a tailspin.  Without a waiver like what you cited, if I relied on a person's forecast, they'd be held liable.  That's unreasonable because so many outside factors can influence a "prediction" that, really, the only legitimate "prediction" should be "well, shit, I dunno.  Go ask a fortune teller."

It's a fairly solid "take this statement with a grain of salt" disclaimer.  Seriously, go watch most any show that gives financial predictions.  That same style of disclaimer will probably show up on the bottom of the screen.  tongue

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Also, it's very possible that disclaimer was written by MSN Money, not the oil company in question.  Try this:

http://investing.money.msn.com/investme … =n&sk=

This is a search for the first line of the paragraph you posted.  You'll get a ton of results on that site, including from non-oil company projections.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Lol

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

5 (edited by The Great Eye 12-Nov-2013 06:57:03)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Then why would a news agency print information that was a newstory, then put a disclaimer at the bottom?  If that was the case then it should say, "News Disclaimer, the information garnered from first and second hand sources MAY not be accurate."

In which case that would make more sense to me.

Still the two news corrispondance reflects problems with the company, who were unwilling to come out and state that they have several problems in the Delhi field in question.

If the warning at the end was made by the agency that produces the news story, it looks completely stupid, and makes it almost as if it was fabricated by the oil company.

In either case, one the oil company screwed up, and didn't wish to produce the actual results of their screw ups with common language, warning or no warning.  The information was posted.  Going around, "Oh by the way we posted information, but we're not going to take responsibility for that info that was posted...."  Seems awfully [no masking] STUPID!

Hi, i'm a news story editor, the information we posted should not be shared or to be lead to believe is all the information, correctly produced, and we will not be liable for any wrong doing on our own part.  Thankyou.

....(think about it)...I mean...no matter how you read the stories on both news of the same company, and the warning at the end.  Obviously, some schmuck either in the oil company, which is being ADDRESSED in the story, or the idiot NEWS WORTHY CORRESPONDANT...was a jack ass.

"Oil company has wells that are totallly screwed up and failing or deteriating.  But the good news is, that the company itself said, business is good and that new technology on the wells in question...."

...they capped the wells with thicker cement.  Must have been that new reinforced fiber cement that's been out for the last 15 years.  They had leaking wells.  Capped wells that were leaking.  They were basically talking about cutting jobs, which pretty much looks like a business losing not so much as money, but plummeting stock value isntead.

The main part of it was, the oil company lied that their doing great, even though, if you read all the Market Lingo, you can see an oil company having serious issues.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Key wrote:

Then why would a news agency print information that was a newstory, then put a disclaimer at the bottom?  If that was the case then it should say, "News Disclaimer, the information garnered from first and second hand sources MAY not be accurate."

Because it's financial predictions.  Financial news, unlike every other type of news, is uniquely dangerous for the news company because if I read that story and say "Wow, I should invest my life savings in Krazy Karl's Kazoo Kompany because MSN Money says they'll do good," if that disclaimer wasn't there, I could claim that the news company had a fiduciary duty to me (a duty which is normally only taken by businesses when they're representing individual clients in those matters).  That means I could sue the company because their predictions weren't accurate if Krazy Karl's Kazoo Kompany turned out to be krap.


Simple question for you, Key.  Take on the role of a business news forecaster.

Pretend you can't use the disclaimer cited above.  So if you ever make a prediction wrong... you can be sued for any losses anyone incurs as a result of you being wrong.  So if you say "This company is going to do good" and the stock value drops, you lose.  If you get a prediction right, however... you're not being paid by clients to provide that advice, so you get paid the value of a news person.

Why would you ever want to be in that job?  You've got all the disadvantages of being someone's stock broker without any of the benefits.  Moreover, you can't manage the risk.  You have to be flawless, or every person who read your article (which circulates on either a city or national level, depending on your company) and ended up wrong can come back to bite you.

How would you manage that?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Rape the earth for oil.  Hard & Deep.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

8 (edited by Key 12-Nov-2013 21:07:13)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

The Great Eye wrote:

Because it's financial predictions.  Financial news, unlike every other type of news, is uniquely dangerous for the news company because if I read that story and say "Wow, I should invest my life savings in Krazy Karl's Kazoo Kompany because MSN Money says they'll do good," if that disclaimer wasn't there, I could claim that the news company had a fiduciary duty to me (a duty which is normally only taken by businesses when they're representing individual clients in those matters).  That means I could sue the company because their predictions weren't accurate if Krazy Karl's Kazoo Kompany turned out to be krap.


Simple question for you, Key.  Take on the role of a business news forecaster.

They weren't forecasting, or predicting.  This info was direct interview information.  Neither the company, nor the news reporter were predicting or forecasting the future.  The one story, reading the politico/engineering portion stated that they had some problems with wells that are damaged, old, or leaking.  You can't get around that one.

The second story was the company attempting to allay FEARS to the STOCK HOLDERS, by saying a lot of hot air words in a balloon of lies, that even I could pop with a small needle.  Allaying fears, is a long way from actually forecasting a future.  Saying, "well, we're dealing with the problems, but those problems aren't that big, so you shouldn't worry at all with your investment...."

New technology?  You know what they're talking about?  Remember that explosive oil rig that polluted the entire gulf region with millions of gallons of oil?  That's the new technology they were talking about.  Because they had to come up with a new way of capping the stupid thing.  You can call an old device, in a new method of dealing with problems as "new technology".  And that's what they were doing, using "new how methods", for dealing with seriously ONGOING problems.

So no, I don't agree on your view point, that they were "Forecasting" or "predicting" future events.  The event they were speaking of in both the actual problem of the company, and the story of the company stating everything is kosher, is of CURRENT EVENTS.  Current events.  It's not like their predicting oil futures.  I can predict oil futures.

First story.  They got quite a few problems in current wells or development well production. 

Second story.  The company is allaying fears to investors, so that the companies stocks don't dip.

Neither story has anything to do with predictions about pricing, or value, although the 2nd story is attempting to head the investors off at the pass of removing their investments.

What came first.  "The problem, or the fear of how much money they would lose from the problem?"

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Then since the disclaimer, in every sentence, limits the waiver to "forward-looking" statements and "future plans and objectives..." what are you saying it's attempting to apply to?  A statement of present fact is not "forward-looking."  It's not a "future plan" or an "objective."  So if you're right, you shouldn't worry about it.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

lol, Key will never admit he was wrong on anything, just like Xeno

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

The top story refers to Evolution Petroleums continueing problems with "Fracking" even though they did not use the word fracking.  In conjuction with damaged or overworked or prior wells which are damaged or showing wear or damage.

New technology?  You know what they're talking about?  Remember that explosive oil rig that polluted the entire gulf region with millions of gallons of oil?  That's the new technology they were talking about.  Because they had to come up with a new way of capping the stupid thing.  You can call an old device, in a new method of dealing with problems as "new technology".  And that's what they were doing, using "new how methods", for dealing with seriously ONGOING problems.

Which is it?  Or are you just going to argue the static words on the page mean whatever you think of next?  "The 1947 Texas City fire, THAT'S what they are talking about!"

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Pumping WATER, is fracking, and they did use the term pumping WATER.  What do you think pumping water into an area does?  The new technology was refering to a process of attempting to deal with leaking or damaged wells, in this case capping.

Now in case someone has problems understanding what SPECULATION is, the story below tells how some idiots are PREDICTING future oil prices will be from imports up to the year 2035.  Twenty-four years from now...

http://news.msn.com/world/us-to-become- … n-2015-iea

As for the stories above, you really need to look at that companies disposition on the market, and all the news related items concurrently dealing with Safety Action reports, oil field/well shutdown, production quota's, and really look at the body of the words used in the documentation.  If you can't see the rotting tree in a forest, well i'm not going to debate a few blind eyes on other peoples part.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

13 (edited by Key 15-Nov-2013 02:39:10)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

http://news.msn.com/us/pipeline-explosi … ted-states

Usually when this occurs in other countries, it's because some idiot was attempting to siphon the gas/oil direct from the pipeline.

OH DAMN! And gas prices were going down...yep, let's blowup a pipeline see if we can shutdown a few plants, get supply tightened up, and then raise prices because of stronger demand.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Takes but 1 day for a fast reaction team to restore a pipe. bots check interior for further damage, bad pipe dug up, cut out, and new pipe swapped in.

There is plenty of local piping in most regions and where there is no good source they can still truck it in before the welders have cut and removed the old pipe.

This is why land pipes are better than ocean pipes.

Just be a man key, admit you were wrong.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

Wrong about what?  That gas and oil companies have no clue of what they are doing?  That the experienced workers that they used to employ were layed off, and are now paying lower wages to the workers that were not PROPERLY trained?  That those same companies cut back on proper materials for inferior workmanship on oil wells, transport pipes, and corner cutting...just to make billions in profits?

You just can't admit wrong doing if your a corporate CEO.  That's a proven fact.  I mean how many companies went before congress and basically said it was someone elses fault and/or problem?

Actually I suppose you could blame the speculators on the whole price gouging bit, since their the a-holes that tell investors when to buy and when to sell.  When to hold and when to fold.  They better count their money, when they're sitting at the table.  Because there will be time enough for counting when you've gouged the market to death.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

16 (edited by V. Kemp 14-Dec-2013 18:03:30)

Re: Oil companies at their worst.

The problem here is fascism, just the same as it is with healthcare and foreign wars.

Big money international banks (and their subsidiary companies) own politicians and voters, on average, care absolutely nothing for the fact that they're owned.

Companies, like people, are often immoral pieces of trash.

The problem here is a lack of sensible laws and virtuous law enforcement officials. Vilifying companies for doing things they can get away with doesn't accomplish anything. Individuals do all kinds of horrendous things when they can get away with them. Blaming them doesn't solve anything. Laws and law enforcement do. Laws and law enforcement are what are lacking here.

The blame belongs to ignorant/apathetic voters and the corrupt politicians they elect. That's not to say that many companies are not without blame, but vilifying them accomplishes nothing. They're going to keep on getting away with whatever we let them until we act. The action lies in laws and law enforcement, and that's where our focus ought to be.

It's easy to blame others. It's a lot more productive to address the problem.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]