Rumors circulate strongly that Obama is a Muslim and that is why he "never listened to Rev. Wright at Church" as well as why he says the call to prayer of Islam is one of the most wonderful things he can remember. Add to this his toppling of Egypts leader, his attqcks on Libya which helped terrorists, his lack of response for abenghazi, his declarations against Israel, and his pull outs of Afghanistan and  the rummors run hard and fadt.

Then he goes and calls for the Muslim Brotherhood leader Morsi tp be restored, wants peace talks with the Taliban, has his own Secretary of State speak with terrorists, and his treatment of Palestinans better than Israelis... and a segment of the population is convinced he is Muslim and that he would topple any regime where Muslims could take over and instigate Sharia Law.

It aso does not help his staffers making the claim that allowing Sharia Law in the US would be a good thing.

It is one thing to smell cow poo, another to accidentally step in some... but  Obama seems so smelly some wonder if he bathes in it.

That's a cop out, pure and simple.

Look at that statement.  You think "universal male conscription", whereby people are coerced to serve the military under threat of imprisonment, torture, or execution of themselves or their family members, indicates they "had a say", really?

<sigh>

Germany didn't lose half their territory
http://www.frumforum.com/wp-content/upl … osses1.jpg

While Hungary lost more than two third of theirs

http://www.atlas-historique.net/cartogr … 9-45GF.gif

The impacts of crimes cascade exponentially from generation to generation.  They are not forgotten.  The process should be to remedy the mistakes of the past, not simply to allow old wounds fester, but rather treat them carefully, making sure they heal.

Blaming the Ottomans for the effects of world powers' arbitrary, merry-map making to suit their respective elites' interests = priceless example of 'copping-out'. 

Here are the borders you say were non-existent:

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/ … y_2669.jpg

Such was the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary for centuries, long before the new world was colonized and the US was even conceived of as a nation.

You attempt to justify this collusion of world powers to debase a culture, heritage, and diminish the traditionally-held sovereign territory of the nation of Hungary by two thirds, based on the notion that the people essentially voted for their support for the Axis by their boots on the ground while dismissing the fact that Hungary was and had been for more than 400 years an indentured state and as such had the least choice in the matter compared to the other states; while dismissing the injustice of the fact that these prime instigators on the Axis side nevertheless had their territories essentially remain intact by comparison to Hungary.

Instead, you try and justify the debasement of Hungary more so than these prime instigators by saying they deserved such for not risking their lives and the lives of their families by refusing conscription or deserting their ranks; essentially you base your argument that Hungary got its just deserts because the Hungarian people who had been  indentured by foreign powers for more than 400 years prior, did not revolt against the Axis, ignoring how they as a people and culture had been long-conditioned to be subservient to the authority of their foreign oppressors.

And yet, ironically, even if you were to continue to ignore such factors, by your very own logic, then, the territories of the Austrians and Germans, would have deserved if not more then at the very least the same extent of loss of their sovereign territory.  Do you simply not see the folly of your logic?   

The main Axis powers, who unlike Hungary certainly were not indentured states, would have been expected to lose more territory than Hungary, had the world powers of the day truly just been doing best, as you claim, in full consideration of the instigating factors, the culture, the history and heritage of the peoples of the region, to orchestrate a reasonable set of reparations.   

The fact is that they did not care about what was reasonable or fair.  Instead, they cared primarily for their own nations' elites' interests.  They did not care what was sustainable culturally or ethnically; they did not care about the the long-term impacts of their decisions and whether or not such borders would remain practical many centuries in the future.  They were interested in the short-term gains that could be had for their respective elites, and, as the Axis powers were negotiating essentially on behalf of Hungary and against Hungary's interests, with Hungary having the least say at the bargaining table, of course they would put upon Hungary to most burden. 

After 400+ years of occupation, Hungary was in no position to do anything other than relent and accept their near-complete debasement and humiliation as a sovereign state, and mourn their fate as the prime instigators and perpetrators to which they had been indentured suffered the least.   

Do you want to continue to hold that Hungary was deemed more instigating of and culpable for the war(s) than the major Axis powers and thus deserving of such debasement?  Do you really believe that what Hungary suffered was proportionate in comparison to their culpability compared to the other Axis states and their culpability? 

I would ask you why you think the territories of other Axis powers to whom Hungary was indentured were not at the very least as dismantled as was Hungary's?

Again, the borders of the Kingdom of Hungary long before the US had even been conceived of, borders which remained more or less the same up until 1914:

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/ … y_2669.jpg

I call dibs on reclaiming Prussia!

Joe Biden wants to be President

Hillary wants to be President

they are not touching this with a 10-foot pole

John Kerry wants to be known as that dwarf on Game of Thrones

so he's all over it

Lies.  I do not keep asserting anyone's right to rule anyone.  I keep asserting that a grievous wrong was done to the nation of Hungary.

The borders I posted were from the 1300s.  Does that mean nothing?  Hungary tried to conquer no one since then, but merely failed to defend itself from the Turks adequately, the Ottoman occupation, which neighboring countries took full advantage.

Hungary suffered the most in terms of loss of territory among the Axis powers. 

http://www.hunsor.se/trianon/treatyoftrianon1920.htm

Why don't you explain how the Hungarian people were therefore more deserving of such losses compared to the Germans, Japanese, Austrians, etc.

This thread is about Syria and the Middle East.  My purpose for discussing the wrongs that world powers, since the Turks's occupation, including the Austrians, the Germans, the Russians, and the West, most notably by the treaty Trianon as indicative of the sort unrest and upheaval that can result as a direct consequence of redrawing the maps for their purposes and their interests rather than the interests of the peoples of the region, unrest and discontent that does not dissipate over time.

If you want to continue discussing Hungarian history why don't we start another thread whereby we can unpack the events that led to this:

http://www.atlas-historique.net/cartogr … 9-45GF.gif

lol its not about Syria, its about Hungary, didnt you read?

"lol its not about Syria, its about Hungary, didnt you read?"
should you even ask?

This is ridiculous, The Yell.  You obviously want to continue this discussion, but you don't start a new thread.  Why?

I will just post this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia_in … th_Hungary

If you have anymore thoughts on it, then, well, shouldn't we will start a new thread?

dont sigh Zeno I havent read the last 2 pages, srry, I just saw 'hungary' and hungarians mentioned a lot of times.
Whenever i get time to read it all properly I will do a syrious post,  I mean, serious  *kough*

Render now ignored until he has a new keyboard...

It gives me such a huge headache reading his posts, especially when he uses 'catchy cachisms to capture an acceptible coin of terms'

It makes my eyes bleed.