1 (edited by Xeno 13-Aug-2013 03:48:49)

Topic: Internships

To companies which have unpaid internship / volunteer programs:  such only attract those who are stupid enough or have such a complete lack of moral sensibility / self-worth that they will work for FREE;  think about it, are those the sorts of people your shareholders want to work in THEIR company?

Unpaid internship / volunteer programs = unethical business practice on soooo many levels; with youth unemployment and corporate profits as high as they are, unpaid internship / volunteer programs are in very poor taste indeed; even low-paid training or probationary programs offered by companies is dirty.

Re: Internships

*expresses disagreement with whatever Baratheon's post was* smile

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Internships

but Xeno, slave labour! its so cheap! and you can get them to do anything.... like get coffees

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Internships

"I like your ideas, but sometimes they are presented ... crudely. "

I am beyond giving a @#$# about how 'crude' I express my ideas.

"And, do not confuse the grammatical slash ( / ) as "or" or "and"

Oh, so writing "and / or" in its entirety is better somehow than just using  " / "?

"Maybe the oil companies had a hand in it. I had content in that post which you may have appreciated, Xeno.  I will reiterate them tomorrow."

Would be interested in hearing it.

Re: Internships

"*expresses disagreement with whatever Baratheon's post was*"
*LP claiming not all Baratheon said in his first post was flawed, or at least we have to confess we lack any evidence that sais so*

Re: Internships

if you do an internship you hope to gain big from it.

A radio intern out here did five years as an intern before he got enough fame to get a stable radio gig. He is where he wants to be, in a tough fought field and he can even now get any broadcasting location he wants.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

Exactly Flint, slaves are happy! and they will definitely be better off for their time as a slave, because they will totally be able to get out of slavery... just work harder

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Internships

He was Nelson the Intern. He could have gotten a different job, but he wanted to be on the radio. There is no right to ANY job, not a right at all. You have to earn a job one way or another.

Now he can command a high salary from any radio station. His internship earned him entry, his skill got him noticed, his dedication got him promoted up, and he commands a good salary.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

of course when we offer amnesty to 15 million illegal aliens AND add about 5 million to our work visa program, we can afford to pay all interns a competitive wage.*


* Competition is based on average wages in Sri Lanka.  Laws void where prohibitive of offer.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

10 (edited by Xeno 15-Aug-2013 17:17:48)

Re: Internships

"A radio intern out here did five years as an intern before he got enough fame to get a stable radio gig."

First, what kind of background does a person come from who can afford to work unpaid as an intern for 5 years?  Privileged, upper or upper-middle class - someone who got the internship because daddy knew someone who knew someone, and not because they had any particularly good aptitude for the job.

Meanwhile, the person who did have better aptitude for the job (and who had more self-respect and stronger moral compass) didn't even consider applying for the internship.  There was no way they were going to waste their time working for free for a company that would be so completely morally bankrupt to offer an unpaid internship program to begin with.

Such a person started out working two rather mundane part-time jobs.  You see, instead of mom and dad sending them to elite private schools from kindergarten through to university and providing for their every whim all along the way, this person's mom and dad were middle class people, who couldn't afford to provide more than clothes, food, and who expected them to pay rent or move out at the age 16, which.  Well, upon turning 16, this person opted to do just that. 

After high school, they started going to community college.  This was the best school they could afford.  Having taken out a student loan to pay for it, they had to work under-the-table, for less money, lest they wouldn't qualify for their student loan.  Even working the two jobs under the table and the student loan, it wasn't enough to afford more than 2 night classes a week at a community college.  And, just as had been the case in high school, there was no way they were going to get good grades - getting good grades they learned early on was a luxury afforded only the privileged, who, due to not having to work or the extra stress of providing for themselves, actually had the luxury of time to think and study. 

It didn't matter, though, because the person in question wasn't expecting to get a better job after university. They were not that naive.  They were not so naive as to think that there was going to be any more opportunity for them to really actualize their potential simply because they had a university degree; they were not so naive as to think that anyone but the privileged, upper-class, rich, people out there had the 'social assets' to get such opportunities after 'graduating'; they were smart enough to know that, inevitably, the system was unjust - that the system was injustice incarnate, perpetuated by the design and control of those who were the primary beneficiaries: the privileged elite, and complicit rich and upper-middle class.

For all along, unlike the privileged elite and complicit upper and upper-middle class, they understood that it was the poor and middle class who were ultimately fork the bill for their own oppression; they were smart enough to know such a system would necessarily thwart their aspirations to reach their potential.

The reason they thus tried 'higher education' was because they nevertheless hoped they were wrong.  There was a part of them that hoped beyond any rationality that there was actually a chance that they might, just possibility, be able to attain a better life for themselves if they played along with the system.  They were also sincerely interested in learning how the world worked.  But all they ended up learning by their experience of higher education was just how fraudulent the system was; how the elite was @$%ing the poor and middle class with the foolish notion that a better life was actually possible for them. 

After a couple of semesters, their suspicion was confirmed: the academic establishment - higher education itself - was clearly a just primary mechanism by which the elite and complicit upper-middle class maintained their social control over the majority; the academic establishment itself was clearly the most fraudulent aspect of the inherently fraudulent system; confirmed plainly by the FACT that they had been getting a better education by studying stuff online by themselves anyway, and by living life in the real world where people had to work real jobs; the fact that they had developed themselves independent of any institution of 'higher' learning and developed far more insight into how the world actually worked than they could ever get studying at any college or university.

Eventually, after getting a degree (if only for the sense that they would have at least something to show for all their denigrating, belittling experiences at university and for the sense that it wasn't a complete waste of time), they worked the same job they did while going to high school, and, moreover, for pretty much the same pay.  They saved their money for a flight and found a job in a country where they figured there might be better equality of opportunity.  Of course, it was to no avail, because the fraudulent system perpetuated by the multinational elite and the complicit multinational rich was ubiquitous.  It was the same story in whichever country they ended up finding work.  Curiously, it seemed all the economies of the world were suffering the same sort of fraudulent, malevolent mechanisms of social control.

Finally, as the global economy continued to struggle due to the elite's continuous sabotage of liberty, justice, and equality of opportunity, they finally got a decent job, with one of the first companies that realized that it needed to start offering paid training or it would go bankrupt.

Laughably, it is only because industry in general is suffering a skills shortage of epic magnitude (due to the baby boomer generation finally starting to retire and the epic failure of the education system to provide the skills necessary for students to succeed) that entire industries are starting to take upon themselves the 'burden' of providing necessary training ( a burden they had previously been able to pass it off to the public sector).

Yet, it is too late: an entire generation, two, even, have had their economic opportunity sabotaged by greed and ineptitude of the corrupt elite and complicit rich and their malevolent system; generations are left embittered and disillusioned, with no respect for the rule of law, no respect for civil authority, and little regard for the legitimacy of government of any form.  And it is only getting worse, as they learn independently online from their own studies of history and current events how the system has been designed to do little else but %#$ them again and again and again.

What will they do, then?  Will they become 'paid training whores', going around from industry to industry collecting training for the fun of it, quitting when suddenly a better opportunity arises, always taking the first chance they get to do get better jobs, and doing a little @%$ing of the system in return for having been @#%ed by it along the way, relishing in hearing about how employers are whining about high turn-over rates and losing their 'investments' in their paid training programs?

I personally, damn well hope so.  Its about time the elite and the complicit rich were on the receiving end of a little of the @#$#-ing for a change.

Re: Internships

He worked a second job, a paying one...

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

"What will they do, then? "

Establish colonies in Europe where the natives are collectivized into call centers where they refinance and sell loans to government backed banks, as in the boom years.  This will not just send money back to the United States, and employ a shiftless generation of Americans, but it will also help civilize Europeans until they can manage their own affairs.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Internships

@xeno

your post is quite pessimistic. I worked part time, went to school full time (with grants/loans), and raised my daughter (as a single parent). I earned a 3.67 GPA while doing all three.

the field of study I chose (education) requires a 1 yr "internship". Student teaching is unpaid. though technically still in college, I was able to continue the grants, but had to quit work to do the student teaching.

Valour-the courage to do what scares you to death

14 (edited by Xeno 17-Aug-2013 18:14:38)

Re: Internships

Valcona wrote:

@xeno

your post is quite pessimistic. I worked part time, went to school full time (with grants/loans), and raised my daughter (as a single parent). I earned a 3.67 GPA while doing all three.

the field of study I chose (education) requires a 1 yr "internship". Student teaching is unpaid. though technically still in college, I was able to continue the grants, but had to quit work to do the student teaching.

Please, continue your story, or allow me...

And in your year of practicum (for which you had to pay tuition AND work for free, essentially paying to be a slave for yet another year), rather than receiving "training" from your "peers", you experienced nothing less than slavery and systemic psychological, personal harassment.

You were treated more as a helper, given the nickname "beer money" (as your "peers" where getting paid extra to have you in the classroom).

The only classrooms which tended to apply to have student teachers were troubled classrooms, where the teachers needed help "policing" rather than "teaching", and, as such, you were inevitably placed in a troubled classroom.

You were left to do essentially most if not all of the work, while the regular teacher went out to smoke, took extended bathroom breaks, etc..  And when, in your naivety, you expressed your dissatisfaction with "training" you were receiving, you inevitably received less rather than more support, since you were now labeled as one who wasn't going to "play along".  You were setup to fail miserably in your classroom evaluations so they could push you out of the program.

Since you had made it clear you wouldn't "be one of them", keep your mouth shut, and play along with their thoroughly morally and cognitively corrupt system; since you naively thought that since you were the one paying and sacrificing so much to receive this training that you could expect the best possible environment to receive your training, they were going to do everything they could to toss you out of the program.

You were naive when you expressed dissatisfaction with the training you were receiving; naive to expect that they would accommodate you and support you; naive to expect anything "educational" from the "education trainers"; rather, you shouldn't have expected anything other than continued slavery and systemic psychological personal hazing.

You should have expected it, for such had been the nature of your entire "educational" experience as you had jumped through every hoop the morally and cognitively corrupt system had been placing in front of you to jump through for decades: K-12, four years of university, and this your final year of practicum.  Why did you expect anything different?

Now, being in debt 250 thousand dollars, grants, loans, and your mortgage.  Do you get your tuition back?  Haha.  No way.  You get another minimum-wage, part-time job, working alongside 16-year-olds.  Your boss is younger than you.  He hadn't even finished high school; he had been working with the company since he had dropped out at age 16. He drives a new car and his home is paid-off.

You realize your investment in your education had been a complete waste of time.  If only you could go back in time, you could have dropped out of high school and be so much better off.  Worse, there is no possibility of applying to get compensation in any form for having wasted these last 10 years of your life on the mass FRAUD which was your higher education.

Say you had kept your mouth shut and played along and finally graduated and received your little piece of paper that said you were qualified to "teach", what then?

10 years of on-call work, earning less than 20k per year, running you into more debt.

The manager at the fast-food restaurant you're working at would STILL be better off than you.

Oh, and about your GPA of 3.67, all that tells me is you are good at regurgitating what you are force-fed by what is a thoroughly morally and cognitively bankrupt education system, or that you are good at cheating; regardless of which is the case, it tells me that you are exactly the type of person the thoroughly morally and cognitively bankrupt system would like; one who has demonstrated they have exactly the right sort of attitude (ironically rather than actual aptitude) to be a good, hard-working, obedient slave.

(Ironically, by DESIGN, GPA is not indicative of actual aptitude for proficiency, for so many reasons).

15 (edited by Xeno 17-Aug-2013 19:47:47)

Re: Internships

Valcona.  Please answer me this.  What was going through your head at age 16 when you decided that you wouldn't drop out of high school and get a job?  What was going through your head when you decided that you would spend the next decade jumping through hoops to achieve a high GPA?  Was it to eventually get a job as a teacher?  A "good" job of some sort?  Some vague notion of reaching your "potential"?  Some notion that, somehow, you were special, and unlike the vast majority of the billions upon billions of other people in the world out there that never reach their potential that you were somehow different?  Really?  At age 16, when, I assume you made the decision not to drop out and get a job, did you weigh the advantages and disadvantages of pursing higher education?  Were you at all informed by your teachers or parents about what you were getting into?  Or were you, like most people, told by your teachers and parents to trust that if you set your mind to it you could achieve whatever might be your heart's desire?

And did you, like most people, trust your teachers and parents when they advised you that you should pursue higher education even though you didn't know what your heart's desire was?  Did you, like most, come to believe by their "guidance" that attending university would empower you to achieve whatever your heart's desire might be, and, in sincerely believing them, you thus found your motivation to sacrifice all that you did towards that vague end?

And while you were in university, did you actually then, as promised by your teachers and parents, come to realize what your heart's desire was for your future?  Did "higher" education really make good on its promise?  Apparently, you didn't come to realize it was all a sham (in the many respects that it so clearly is), and so I am very interested in hearing how it is your time at university enlightened you to realized that your heart's desire for your future career was in fact to be a teacher and how it is that higher education truly did make good on its promise to empower you to reach your full potential, which, I must assume, is for you to be a "teacher".

Re: Internships

Wow... xeno has written something that sounds like his story, except i suspect he took a liberal arts class. possibly marxism? maybe sociological studies? there was a lot of anger and angst in that post.



Sad thing is if we went full on conservative he would not be fighting for a minimum wage job and he would live comfortably. socialism just brings everyone down except a leader or two who live in expansive luxury. another kobe burger mr. obama?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

17 (edited by Xeno 17-Aug-2013 20:01:52)

Re: Internships

"Wow... xeno has written something that sounds like his story"

Actually, it is the story of millions, billions, even - just substitute "teacher" for any profession, and"classroom" with "company", and, bingo, you've got virtually everyone's story, including your own, Einstein, that is if, in fact, you didn't drop out of high school. 

Wait a second.  Einstein, did you drop out of high school?  That would explain a lot.

Re: Internships

Actually i grew up in the jungle, and married a rich monkey.

Billions... hahahaha

Xeno, king of silliness!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

19 (edited by Xeno 17-Aug-2013 20:03:55)

Re: Internships

"Billions... hahahaha

Xeno, king of silliness!"

What, you don't think at least half the people in the world attend schooling of some sort?  Just because you didn't, Einstein, doesn't mean most don't.

Re: Internships

Xeno you wont get paid for retrying first grade... now go eat your pudding cup with the 6 year olds who will graduate that grade unlike you.

Truth is you could have a job starting at $30,000 and rising to as high as $100,000 in 5 years but you wont even think of it. hiring is almost a guarantee if you do not have a felony. but your world requires you to get a million dollars a year as welfare... which. will. not. ever. happen.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

Oh i forgot *flings poo at xeno's face*

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

"Oh i forgot *flings poo at xeno's face*"

Apparently, Einstein, you went to Harvard, then?

Re: Internships

I would have chosen Rice University but two teachers in my talented and gifted classes got offended at my Conservative politics and flunked me

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Internships

*glares at Flint and xeno*

Please don't make me have to actually do my job, guys.  Not that I have a problem with the discussion going on, but try and keep it civil with one another.  Yes, that includes poo-flinging too, particularly when your aim is terrible enough to where hurling a semi-solid pile of matter is likely to result in portions breaking off from the larger mass and hitting random forum moderators who just happened to be standing around at the time!  X(

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Internships

"I would have chosen Rice University but two teachers in my talented and gifted classes got offended at my Conservative politics and flunked me"

And so then you dropped out and became a trucker, right?  Smart.  Honestly, no irony intended, here.  I can see why you are so happy and well-established, at ease and supportive of the status quo.  You were smarter than you teachers, smart enough to know that higher education was a sham and that you should get out asap.  I honestly wish I had been as smart as you, Einstein.  Truly.