Topic: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

I call this a guide because I sincerely doubt any supporters will try to defend it. Instead I expect a troll or two and for them all to say in their mind some excuse of why the whole thing is a disaster... like the Insurance companies are trying to kill it, or those on the right are trying to hurt it. Under no circumstances will these die hards believe that the entire monstrosity was bad to begin with.

So why is ObamaCare bad?

Well ObamaCare has already resulted in Lost Jobs due to small companies struggling to get under the 50 employee threshhold (since the costs of ObamaCare exceed their profits they need to avoid the cost or pass the buck. Most are looking at the bad economy and saying they cant pass thebuck). Companies which were poised to grow have scaled back their dreams. In one example a company which could grow would incur a $200,000 added cost for one more employee, where the employee would only earn the company an additional $5,000 annually in profits. Some larger corporations and companies are cutting the least profitable of positions after calculating that the cost of Obamacare would make these positions lose money. Equipment makers are also layong off workers in the face of a medical device tax which exceeds their annual profits. Warning alarms are going off at these companies as they are getting double whammied thanks to the "Cadilac Tax" as well (high value employees wanting good benefits.... why how shocking!).

"We need to pass the bill to know what's in it!"

-Nancy Pelosi (D) Speaker of the House

On top of that companies are Reducing Hours to avoid the cost. Fast food workers are being hardest hit. In a double down on thw pain those workers are also losing vacation time, sick leave, and other benefits due to the fact the companies can only cover fulltime employees effectively with those benefits. This however is helping reduce unemployment as it now takes 1.5 workers to cover what one worker used to do. To bad it is at the lower end of the pay scale typically. Which adds the other problem this causes... These same employees must now find a second job, use transportation to get there, and face longer net days and weeks due to two different schedules.  That is if they can find a position compatible with their first part-time job.

Costs Have Risen significantly already, despite Democrat promises, especially from Obama and his Administration. Obama swore up and down costs would go down. Once a liar.... well you get the picture. In fact this initial cost surge is far from the only price aurge. A recent study by actual insurance actuaries showed some States will see an increase as much as 80% more than current prices. California, New York, New jersey and other left leaning States being the hardest hit (because they mandate the most extras, such as sex change procedures). The IRS itself predicts the LOWEST COST for a family of four will be $20,000 whether paid for by companies or by the family....

"This is a Big ******* Deal!"

- Vice President Joe Biden to Barack Obama

Remember that promise by Obama that if you like your plan you can keep it? He lied there as well. You Cannot Keep Your Insurance Plan under ObamaCare since Obama and Sebelius have made significant mandates. Your policy has to be ended and you will get a new one. Not only that but Obama and Democrats eliminated a popular plan. Yes thats right, Health Savings Accounts were destroyed by Obama. Oh and he also gutted the very plan I wanted, a high deductible plan. Well... all high deductible and low premium plans...

You also Cannot Keep Your Doctor in many cases. In a guesture to big hospitals ObamaCare punishes the Doctor with his own Practice forcing them out of business in most cases. This is due to the huge paperwork burden which most small practices cannot afford to keep up with but which Hospitals can absorb. Sadly it is also resulting in the Retirement of Many Doctors in an early retirement rush. Thus you might not keep that doctor you have known for 10 years. In fact the rush is so big even Democrat Politicians are noticing. They are floating idea's including reducing the education requirement for becoming a Doctor and in having Registered Nurses take up a significant portion of the duties of Doctors.

"We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for a ride, but they gotta sit in back."

- President Obama on Republican attempts to alter the Affordable Care Act


In one city alone 60% of doctors indicated they plan to quit in the next 3 years. Nationally more and more doctors, after getting more word on the requirements, are planning to get out of the business. Additionally due to lowered Medicare reimbursements many doctors are becoming unwilling to take on new Medicare patients while some are even dropping their current patients.

In fact it has been found Under ObamaCare Millions of People Will Lose Their Coverage. The numbers are starting to almost equal how many people did not have coverage in the first place. In fact due to uncertainty over how many companies will not be providing coverage (opting to pay a penalty instead or from making their workforce sufficiently part time in numbers) or will not provide the costly insurance for families, this number can actually end up far exceeding those numbers. Ironic that ObamaCare has a high probability of reducing coverage for the Middle Class is it not? In fact it gets worse. With a real loss in revenue and with costs of insurance jacking up, those numbers will only rise.

"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan you can keep your plan."

- President Obama

This ironically will result in many not getting the checkups they need as well. Due to the way ObamaCare is set up insurance companies cannot refuse someone, so it becomes far easier to pay the penalty when young and healthy (seeming) or when coverage costs to much until something major happens. This means that a lot of people, myself included, will voluntarily not have insurance.

ObamaCare Pays for Unneccessary Things including bicycle paths, walking paths, and jungle gyms. This stuff will be given based upon political clout, not need of course. Ultimately a Federal program determining where a Jungle Gym shouod go is a wasteful program subject to over pricing, favoritism, insider abuse, and political grandstanding. All of these things should be a State or local issue.

"You better get on the train or watch your party implode – that’s my words of advice to the Republican Party”

- Michael Moore


Obamacare will Increase Fraud as well. Already due to the computerized system that is mandated we have seen 'education' courses where Nurses, Doctors, and such are shown which fields to fill out, which tests to include for optimum payouts. Remember Medicare and Medicaid already suffer billions in fraud annually. In fact the computerized system can enhance certain types of fraud...

ObamaCare will Affect Veternarians Negatively as well with the Medical Device Tax. This tax covers anything that can be multi use including cat scan devoces, xray devices, and other devices which help treat wounded or sick pets or farm animals (and in many cases Zoo animals and wild animals as well).

"It is not an overstatement to say that Obamacare was the single most important catalyst leading to the tea party movement."

- David Limbaugh

Speaking of the Device Tax ObamaCare Will Push Jobs Over Sea's and otherwise outsource our jobs. By taxing devices higher than normal we make companies lose money working in the States. Not only that but the Medical Device Tax also increases Medical Costs.

ObamaCare will Dramatically Increase Taxes. Not only the mentioned Device Tax but a good dozen plus other taxes. The scariest one, in my opinion, is the fact Medical Expenses are no longer Tax Deductable. By the way one tax already proved inadequate and will be severely raised if Obama gets his way. That tax is the Pre-existing Conditions Tax which ran out of money a year early.

"What you did, instead, was to push through a plan without a single Republican vote. As a matter of fact, when Massachusetts did something quite extraordinary...elected a Republican senator to stop Obamacare...you pushed it through anyway.

- Mitt Romney


ObamaCare will also Hurt the Elderly. Medicare Plus, used by a large number, was eliminated to gain the support of the AARP which stands to gain hundreds of millions in their supplemental insurance plan (due to the elimination of Medicare Plus). This is on top of the sleight of hand where they cut BILLIONS from Medicare which will reduce the number of procedures available, medications, and the pool of doctors will drop as well. Say goodbye to Grandma and Grandpa while you can!


Under ObamaCare the United States, already the Biggest Spender on Healthcare will add near a trillion dollars more a year to that spending just from what Congress Authorozed. However the additional costs due to regulations can make it so our nation goes BANKRUPT trying to support this failed idea. Part of the means they plan to 'try' to balance it out is to shift some costs to the States while increasing the National Cost. You know Statss like Calfironia which is perpetually near bankruptcy, Illinois which can't keep schools open, New York which is trying pension reform to save their State, Oregon where pensions threaten to drown the State, and Taxachussetts... errr Massachussetts... where taxes are so high people have a hard time supporting themselves.



"The greatest threat to Medicare is Obamacare, and were going to stop it!"

- Paul Ryan

Liberals and Democrats need to acknowledge ObamaCare is already a disaster. When they do that and help end it we can turn this economy partially around, restore hope, and wait for a change in the Administration. Obamacare is not about healthcare, it is about taxes slush funds, securing political futures, and in raw power.

If the Left Truly Want To Help then any of these methods would have been far better at far less the cost

1) End Lawsuits or cap them. My preffered way is no monetary compensation without a criminal conviction first. This higher bar would end a vast majority of the lawsuits immeadiately.

2) Use Social Security and Disability by making a sub branch to cover refused pre-existing conditon patients with the Government taking ownership of the policy and the revenue of the policy. This will ensure coverage for rejected individuals. I don't favor this but liberals should.

3) Make a High Deductible, Low Premium Pool per State. Tax every adult $20  a year. Pay Deductibles, or portions of it, for those unable to obtain normal health insurance and unable to pay for the deductible. Have a means test and a max income level to qualify. Still not preffrred but should be likable to Liberals.

4) Permament Health Savings Accounts . Require a % of everyones income to goto their PHSA, make it so only health expenses can be covered, and let free market principles guide everyone!

"Millions of individuals making their own decisions in the marketplace will always allocate resources better than any centralized government planning process."

- Ronald Reagan

5) Make a law requiring the most bare bones of an Insurance Policy per State. This would mean the top 5, 10, 15, or such conditions are covered but not highly unusual conditions like the swelling of a mans testes to 100 pounds, nor less severe issues like the flu shot.

6) Interstate Insurance Purchasing where anyone in USA can purchase a policy from anywhere in the United States.

7) Long Wait, No Cost Charity Hospitals per State. One permState (except combine some smaller States), where a person can schedule treatment or diagnosis but is put at the end of the line for treatment. Allow travel from anywhere in USA to one, so long as an appointment (no ER).

8) End Corporate Insurance and make it so only individuals can purchase their own medical insurance.

"The most terrifying words in the English langauge are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

- Ronald Reagan

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

2 (edited by Justinian I 31-Mar-2013 22:37:48)

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

I agree with 5, 6, 7, and 8, I am unsure about 1, 2 and 3, and I disagree with 4.

Stay away from my paycheck. In fact, I would like medicare and social security abolished too. If people had the sense to buy assets to cover their expenses when they got older, then we wouldn't need retirement funds and there would be a lot less income inequality. And I resent paying for unproductive, conservative old people who had faith is their retirement fund pyramid.

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

im too lazy to read that flint but obamacare will also make employer provided health insurance count as taxable income.  this could be awful to people hinging on the border of tax brackets

So I told the cop, "No YOU'RE driving under the influence... of being a JERK!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjjO_lhf9c

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

Health Savings Accounts were destroyed by Obama

can you expand on this? the closest thing i found was that you need a perscription and the penalty for non-related expenses was upped to 20%

ObamaCare Pays for Unneccessary Things including bicycle paths, walking paths, and jungle gyms. This stuff will be given based upon political clout, not need of course. Ultimately a Federal program determining where a Jungle Gym shouod go is a wasteful program subject to over pricing, favoritism, insider abuse, and political grandstanding. All of these things should be a State or local issue.


this was a result of the ACA Community Transformation Grant from what i find. and to the best of my understanding no one has been exluded from this program. though it is crazy that this is covered from obamacare. though i support preventative care.

a majority of your statements are too general for me to find anything to back them up so i would hardly call this a guide. and nearly every issue defined is a result of the costs generally going up for everyone. employee,employer, insurance company. im sure some of this cost is due to the massive changes in policies and the piles of poperwork that follow. it will be a while until a median is found and any costs will lower if at all.

i supported this act originally thinking that it was designed to help people with issues getting insurance. i do not understand why everyones policies had to be thrown into this mess. i would have much rather had small changes and not a wall of death to worry about.

im sure i will have more to say after further research.

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

On top of that companies are Reducing Hours to avoid the cost.

Well ObamaCare has already resulted in Lost Jobs due to small companies struggling to get under the 50 employee threshhold

these are the same talking points as the act states, 50 full time employees, excluding that they surpass this limit for 120 days or less, basically sesonal companies are unaffected.

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

A growing company is destroyed upon growing to big tho, the costs means there is now a huge hurdle to jump at 50 full time.

Additionally when most resteraunts are reducing hours frantically to get under the limit, it becomes obvious there is a problem.


More later, imma so fudgedup right now.... a semi truck hit me, a 747 landed on me, a freight train derailed on to me, and a oil tanker beached on me... ugh... like a hangover with no drinking!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

7 (edited by V. Kemp 03-Apr-2013 06:46:28)

Re: Flint's Guide to ObamaCare

twosidedeath,

Costs are so high in America because in 1943 the IRS ruled that employers could cover employee's healthcare costs pre-tax. (The obvious result of this being that employers could offer employees significantly more in healthcare benefits than they could a straight salary increase for the same cost) As a result, most employers started offering good insurance, because all of that cost was pre-tax, whereas any salary increase was taxed (even more so if it kicked an employee into a higher bracket).

As a result of this ruling and most Americans becoming over-insured, America's healthcare system (the most advanced and expensive in the world) has been massively overused, most especially of late with cultural shifts resulting in morons going to the doctor for every cold, flu, bump, and bruise. The real cost of this overuse of healthcare infrastructure is very high, but to the over-insured patient there is no cost or a very low cost.

Obamacare doesn't address this problem to any degree. And it worsens it.

Obamacare makes this problem worse, forcing everyone to socialize the costs of even more ridiculous over-insured coverages, such as men paying for birth control and maternity care, the responsible paying for the STD treatment for the whores, etc.

Obamacare makes this problem worse, adding massive taxes to any desirable healthcare plan, deemed a "Cadillac plan." As if it's some 1%er thing and all of us aren't either buying them for our families or intend/seek/would like to.

America used to be about getting the best for ourselves and our families, and getting government out of the way so we could do so as well as possible. Obamacare directly makes it more difficult for individuals and families to purchase the best care by directly adding massive taxes to it, in addition to making healthcare more expensive in various other direct and indirect ways. It's literally 100% bad.

Literally everyone who supported this legislation is either a lazy intellectual slob (ignorant as all hell but too cocky to let that stop them) or an authoritarian lover of fascism and tyranny. No exceptions.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]